She's dead!

[PaulCormier]

Well, after 1 1/2 years and about 18,000 miles of absolutely no problems - I have a problem. Everything was normal on Friday, dropped off my daughter at school, picked up some diesel, and drove to work (about 12 miles). Started right up after work and drove home (about 7 miles), again working perfectly. Truck did not move on Saturday.



Today, I go out, hop in the truck, turn the key to run, wait for the grid heater light to turn off, turn the key to start, and everything goes dead. Engine does not turn over, all dash lights go off, all guages return to their "off" positions, the speedometer seems to be ticking as the needle shakes at zero. This seems to cycle about 1 sec on (dash lights ok, radio on, etc), 1 sec dead (all dash lights off, radio off, speedometer needle clicking and at zero, etc). Moved the key to off. Tried moving the key to run again, all lights come on for about 1 sec and then the dead thing happens and I get the 1 sec dash lights on, 1 sec dead cycle. If I try to turn the key to start immediately, I get the dead thing happening.



Had some errands to run so I took my wife's car. When I got back, I tried it again... this time the dash lights remained on for about 6 secs (not enough for the grid heater light to go off) and then the 1 sec on/1 sec off cycle began again. Tried with 2nd set of keys, same behavior. I have a dashhawk, but cannot read any codes because the truck won't power the dashhawk long enough (1 sec on/1 sec off).



Any ideas... ?



Thanks for any help/insight,

Paul

 

[AMink]

Loose battery cable? Start cheap, go from there!:-laf

 

[MullenaxM]

I agree, Make sure the cable ends are clean and tight on both battries.

 

[FourBarR]

How about dead batteries. Some kind of draw may have killed them.

 

[PaulCormier]

Checked battery cables... both look good. No corrosion. Nice and tight. Turned on headlights and can barely look directly at them because of the brightness.



Headlights were off when I entered the truck... Don't have any add on electrical accessories. It's about 50 degrees today - not particularly cold. Truck was only sitting 1 day without being started.



I should add that I don't even hear the starter attempt to engage when I turn the key to start...

 

[DavidC]

How about dead batteries. Some kind of draw may have killed them.

Agree, sounds like batteries are dead.



Dave

 

[PaulCormier]

Went outside with the voltmeter... voltage at battery 1 is 11. 49 while voltage at battery 2 is 11. 44. Checked voltage in wife's car, 12. 40.

Hooked up the jumper cables just in case. Grid heater light seems to stay on now and will turn off, but engine does not turn over. Could it be that I still don't have enough power to turn over the motor even with jumper cables?

On edit: Have called roadside assistance... they will be here within the hour... we'll see if that's the problem.

 

[snuff]

it takes alot of juice to turn over, high compression.

 

[snuff]

got a load meter?

 

[SNGLESHOT]

Time to trouble shoot

Have batteries checked before you scrap them especially since they have only 18 months on them. They could be salvageable and rechargeable if no bad cells. The important thing is to FIND OUT WHAT CAUSED THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. Grid heater solenoid could be stuck also. Check with voltmeter/ammeter for current/voltage drops between battery cable and battery post and then run checks between fuse points in your fuse box to isolate which circuit is drawing down... this is a good way to isolate the problem circuit if there is one. Glove box lite staying on? Seat belt switch malfuntion? All kinds of little things that can draw down even two big batteries can be the cause. Search the forums for electrical problems and you will find some really good ideas on how to figure out what CAUSED the problem. Agree with the guys... start cheap and easy and work your way back. I am no expert, actually a newbie to the diesel world but am learning fast expecially with the help of TDR. There is a wealth of knowledge on TDR... so use it! Good luck to you. Keep us all advised.

PS: I see you have a Dashawk monitor device. How do you like it? Problems or advantages? Check out latest issue of TDR magazine issue #64 and it tells how to read codes on odometer using key method to retrieve.

 

[PaulCormier]

Well tow truck just left... Truck still not starting.

The tow truck driver thinks I have plenty of juice from my own batteries but hooked up the boost anyways - even tried with a portable battery. No real difference... He is thinking that either there is a fuse problem or starter electrical problem (short).

I guess she gets towed to the dealer first thing tomorrow morning. Dealer is closed today and does not have a drop off area. Sigh...

On edit: as for the dashhawk. I bought it mainly to monitor the boost and trans temp. A lot of the emissions data can be read with the dashhawk, it's trying to make sense of it! It reads the soot load, DPF pressure delta, 3 EGTs, etc. I have been trying to "predict" the next time the truck will go into a regen, but am having absolutely no luck. This is what I have been able to figure out: regens happen less often in the winter (I can go about 2 times as long between regens); de-nox does not happen in the winter; de-soot always preceeds de-nox in the summer; de-nox works much better under load (e. g. , pulling my 5th wheel); your truck will pick the worst possible time to re-gen (e. g. , 5 minutes before shutdown even though you are completing a 2 hour drive).

Paul

 

[Tinman]

Make sure it's really in park. Don't ask me why I recommend that. Mine did some think like this before. Battery was dead. I have no idea what drained it and it hasn't done it in a year. I figure a door wasn't closed all the way.

 

[DavidC]

Did you try reading battery voltage with the headlights on,or someone to try starting while reading voltage. If a battery is internally shorted nothing will overcome that and it will draw the good battery down also.



Dave

 

[SNGLESHOT]

Will be interested in finding out what the problem actually is. This thread probably qualified for the the "911" forum but I think the pillars of TDR will pick up on this one and give you some real insight. Thanks for the reply on the Dashawk. Sounds confusing.

 

[PaulCormier]

Well... had her towed to the dealer this morning. They tried to start her and she was doing the exact same thing as yesterday. So they hooked up the battery charger for a couple of hours while they were working on other vehicles and when they went out, she fired right up! Guess we should have left the tow truck hooked up to her for a bit longer yesterday and it might have made a difference.



According to the mechanic, everything check out. Batteries are holding a charge and can deliver the amperage needed; she has about 65 mA of draw when turned off (brake controller - goes to sleep after a while, dashhawk - turns of with ignition but still draws some current when sleeping, and the rust inhibitor are the only things that I can think of); and apparently the alternator is doing its job (output is good). So he was at a loss to explain why I wouldn't have enough power to start her up after sitting for 1 1/2 days (Friday evening to Sunday morning). While there, they updated the TCM and PCM to the latest updates.



I guess we'll see what happens tomorrow morning when I have to go to work.



Thanks for all of the help - you were right on the money!

 

[PaulBarker]

I had a similar problem with my 07 6. 7... . put key in and truck did not turn over, batteries were fine. After investigating, it appears something hung in the system that reads the chip in the key. After unhooking both batteries, and allowing time for the computer to reset, truck fired right up and no problems since. If it happens again, try this. Obviously, couldn't get the dealer to warranty anything, as there was no problem with the truck when I took it to them.