Shifting Without the Clutch!?

[rustycoon]

Hello,I'm a new member. Our trucks rock!!

Q #ad
oes anyone shift without the clutch on a regular basis. Is this bad for the transmission? Commercial truckers have told me to not use the clutch and save it.

I have tried it and have the technique down for upshifting and downshifting. It's Fun!!
Thanks and glad to be a member.

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Rusty Coonfield
99 Dodge3500 4x2
Towing a 76 31' Airstream

 

[rob10858]

ive got a neighbor that drives a big rig and he showed me how its done also, but the clutch is there for a reason. remember your lesson in case the clutch ever goes out on you, but in the meantime use it.

 

[Okie-Go]

Rustycoon, on a thread a while back most of the rammers advised agsinst it. Our trannys are not set up to float the gears like on a semi. Someone even saw a transmission that had beedn shifted as such,the corners were rounded off instead of being more square like. Someone may no more but I use my clutch. Sometimes I down shift to save brake pads but I don't float them. Just my opinion.

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2001 quadcab slt 2500 HO 6spd. LWB,2wd,dk garnett red, trailer tow package,camper special, anti spin 3. 54 axle, speed liner,oversized stainless steel chicken slide,66 gallon in bed aux. tank,K&N air filter,Reese 20k hitch, Terry 2000 EX 30ft. double slide 5er, 2000 20ft gooseneck for haulin jeep, firewood and huntin stuff. 5X12 tagalong for haulin the 4 wheeler. Okie Newton

 

[SandDemon]

It's pretty safe to short shift (come out of gear w/o clutching) but I wouldn't risk "syncro" shifting (going in w/o clutching). There's just too much $$$ in buying a new transmission. My race car trannies survive pretty well using this method.

Jeff

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2001. 5 ETH/DEE 2500 4x4 3. 54 lsd. 33' Weekend Warrior 5er and an army of toys to fill it!
'96 1500 360 3. 90 LSD 3" cat back no muffler! 110,000 and still eating chebbys for lunch!

 

[Sled Puller]

I HAD to shift without the clutch, as it quit disengaging. I have shifted numerous trucks without the clutch, but this one does not lend itself to doing it very well.

Trust me, it costs $$$$$$$$$$$.
Learn from my mistake.

Gene

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1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 "One Piece At A Time" Bombed & Amsoiled. Amsoil Premiere Direct Jobber, Member of: NRA Business Alliance, GLTDR, WANTED: Wrecked Dodges.
www.awdist.com

 

[PAYCHECK]

I am a truck driver everyday. In my BIG truck there is an un-sychronized transmission, by matching engine rpm to wheel speed you can 'Float' the gears,somtimes called rpm shifting. In a fully syncronized transmission(the dodge cummins transmission) you should NEVER,NEVER,NEVER, do that!!!


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01 2500HD QC,SB,3. 54,5 spd,4X4,241HD,SLT+,Sport all black,fully loaded,all leather htd,jacobs e-brake,tow pack,camper pack,,full rhino lining bed and rocker panels,265/75r16 BFG ATs ko,nerf bars,everthing black,4'' Jardine,ultra lite pyro & boost on a-pillar,EZ,NO stickers except cummins on door,License plate-1 CUMN, NRA endowment life member

 

[Powder Extreme]

Semi transmission's and pickup transmission's are quite different. A semi has no syncros, requiring you to either "double clutch" or shift without the clutch using the throttle to match the engine rpm with the needed rpm for the transmission to slide into the next gear. Our pickups use syncros to match the rpm making it much much easier to shift. I would bet that very few truckers could go through all the gears without grinding once in a while when they were first learning in a semi.

I drove 175,000 miles on my '94 rarely using the clutch to shift, NO problems whatsoever, I never even had the "5th gear nut problem". But I have also driven semi's quite abit and have the technique down pretty well.

Technically speaking the pickup transmission is not designed to be shifted without the clutch, but if you match the rpm's PERFECT it won't cause any ill effects. If you don't match them perfect each time, you'll wear out your syncros sooner. Not to mention when you miss shift it usually puts alot of strain on the rest of your drive train.

Hope this helps and welcome to the TDR!! #ad


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2001 Quad Cab Dually, ETH, SLT Plus, Isspro Pyro & 50lb Boost, 275 injectors, Banks Power Pack, custom "Scotty style" airbox, amsoil dual bypass, 4" open exhaust in front of duals.

'94 SLT 4x4 V-10, straight pipes and a K&N (can't find anything else

 

[Dr.Evil]

I knew there was a reason I don't buy Used Pickup Trucks! Thanks for reminding me.
DENNY.....

 

[Sled Puller]

Come to think of it, how much does using the clutch going through the gears actually wear it?
I think most wear would be starting from a dead stop, or powering into it loaded up hill.
Gene

 

[Ranger Dick]

Look at the Magazine, issue 31, page 25, last paragraph on the left side. For the NV4500 "Mike also pointed out that the NV4500 is designed like a larger version of an automobile transmission and the clutch must be used for shifting. It is not like some big truck transmissions with dual countershafts that can be shifted without using the clutch. The NV4500 synchronizers have some type of friction materioal bonded to them, similar to what automatic transmissions clutches use, and they are not tolerant of clutchless shifting. If you tend to play "big rig driver", beware, and use that clutch!". Sorry about the long post, but this makes sense to me. Mike is the guy that owns Standard Transmission & Gear. Dose lot's of work on the NV4500

 

[rustycoon]

thanks very much to all!

so some of you have done this and trashed a transmission? and others have done it and not had any problem?

it sounds like i've got several if not all AGAINST shifting without the clutch. only one saying it worked out all right.

just for reference and general info and maybe to spark some more discussion:
when upshifting w/o clutch i go past 2000 rpm and then let off gas and let the lever slide out of gear and then give gentle pressure to the next gear slot and when it hits about 1600 rpm it drops in to gear. it does not feel as smooth as with a clutch. there is a slight bump but never a grinding. i have only missed it 3 times in 4000 miles and had a slight grinding for a millasecond before i cought it and put in the clutch.

thanks again



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Rusty Coonfield
99 Dodge3500 4x2
Towing a 76 31' Airstream

 

[Dr.Evil]

Clutches only wear the facings when they slip. Also builds heat. Causes checking of the friction surfaces. Hardest things on clutches are High RPM starts. Builds a GREAT Amount of heat in a short time. With these turbo diesels if You have to use more than 700 to 800 RPM to start the load Your using TOO high of a gear to start off.
DENNY... ... .

 

[hammong]

You guys that are worried about wearing your clutch out should take a lesson from this board. The key to "saving" your clutch is to learn proper shifting technique, and to match engine RPM whenever possible to reduce the slip on the clutch disc. In that way, you are not making the synchros do all the work, but at the same time - you're also not forcing the gears together by being a "little" off on the engine RPM match.

Greg


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Y2K Dodge Cummins QC 2500 SLT Laramie 4x4 Long Bed, 4. 10/Auto, Forest Green/Driftwood, 265x75R16 Michelin LTX, 6 speaker CD, Camper/Tow/Plow Packages, Westin Black Nerfs, Mopar bedliner, Ultra bright diamondplate toolbox, K&N Filtercharger.

http://www.rints.com/hammond for photos!

Not Bombed yet!

 

[Hicountry]

Hi Guys,
I learned the easy way. Just under 20k miles the dealer replaced the transmission under warranty. 3rd, 4th, and 5th synchros were shot. The drive and driven gears were also toast. However I know an old guy who drives F@#$s and tow trucks and he never shifts with the clutch. BTW he has a NV4500! It is something I will not do again!!

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'98. 5, 24v, 2500 SLT Laramie, Red/Black, QC, LB, 4x4, 5spd, 3. 54 LSD, Full Castrol synthetics, Camper package, trailer package, Kelsey brake controller, CIPA mirror extenders, Happijac camper tie downs, LineX, 285/75x16, 2" front lift, Pro Comp ES3000 shocks(to soft), rear 5K lbs air bags, GUN RACKS, CB, VA box, boost elbow, PS boost mod, K&N, BD E-brake, modified rear brake valve, 9. 5' Jayco Camper, 20' Bayliner cabin cuddy, Yamaha IT490, Life Member NRA & NAHC

 

[Bob Cochran]

I asked this same question awhile back and got the same answers you are getting. One of my problems was the truck and transmission new and was even kinda hard to shift with clutch let alone without. Anyways 12,000 miles later truck shifts fine now with clutch. I quit trying no clutch shifting everyone talked me out of it including and over the rode driver. Sorry for the long post but a transmission and synchros a terrible thing to waste. I never had a problem not using clutch in any other vehicle except this one. I float it out of gear but use clutch to put it in. #ad


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2001 RAM 3500 dually Quad Cab SLT, 4. 10 limited slip, HO 245 hp, 6-speed, dark garnet pearl coat, interior agate, All options except heated leather, added DeeZee brite diamond tool box, Linex spray-in bed liner, Lund hood deflector 3 piece smoke color, DeeZee brite diamond cab/bed running boards and TurboSaver (from Gino's) also Reese 5th wheel 15k hitch. No plans to bomb. This is my retirment vehicle currently pulling 21' 5er want to buy 30 to 35 for retirment.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's okay to shift without the clutch, it's better to use the clutch. I got started shifting my old pickup like a semi when I dislocated my left knee. I drove with strictly my right leg for several months, then I started putting more time in the semi as well. Shifting without the clutch in the pickup was more out of habbit than anything. That pickup now has nearly 200,000 miles and has never had any transmission work at all, just a ceramic clutch to hold the power.

P. S. I've shifted my new one a couple times clutchless to see if it was like the old one, other wise I always use the clutch.

Jerry

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2001 Quad Cab Dually, ETH, SLT Plus, Isspro Pyro & 50lb Boost, EZ Box, 275 injectors, Banks Power Pack, custom "Scotty style" airbox, amsoil dual bypass, 4" DD exhaust.

'94 SLT 4x4 V-10, straight pipes and a K&N (can't find anything else

 

[illflem]

If you really want your transmission to last shift as if you are clutchless, but use the clutch.