Should I do a Single or Twins?

[Matt400]

Mine is a 2003 CA SO I have 2 different fueling boxes and looks like I may end up with a 140 hp stack with another 130 hp box, Both adjustable in cab with off positions. I am looking to the 450 - 500 hp range but want to have my cake and eat it too!



That is I want to drive with the boxes off like a little old lady 70% of the time and not experience a decrease in drivability. Spool up is a concern because since I am a light footed driver I don't want less power in the mode I spend the majority of my time.

I do 20% towing with 6000 lbs in the mountains, box on and would like EGT's way down.

Probably 10% hot rodding, box all the way up, lower EGT's and durable turbo/s are in order.

Not really interested in pulling the head to "O" Ring & stud it, so I am thinking 45-50 psi.



Do I want a better single or twins?

If twins, is my stock charger durable enough as a top charger?

If twins, there has to be a way to stuff a BHAF in the stock location, I really don't want an oiled air filter especially down by the tire.



Maybe my little old lady driving habits calls for one box, a better single with a big sacrifice in available hp??

 

[Tim]

If the $$$ isn't an issue, twins all the way.

 

[bpenrod]

I should be picking my truck up today and I can tell you how your stack does with the B1-04 single turbo. I don't have the in cab adjustment on my VA hooked up, I just have it set to 50% and leave it there while adjusting the Quad bok inside the cab. My mechanic took it for a ride and said it spooled good with the quad off and the VA at 50% but I haven't driven it yet. If the B1-04 cools enough I may put the VA at 100% and just use the quad in the cab. With the stock turbo and the VA at full it got too hot too quick!!

 

[Matt400]

Tim- Well I dunno. . Just gotta put in some more hrs I guess to pay the extra. The total cost of twins is high but then again a good single isn't cheap either.



bpenrod- That will be great to hear how your set up is working. Unloaded daily driving I spend a ton of time in the 1500-1600 RPM range and was thinking a big single would be a bad move at those R's. Towing I am more in the 1600-1800 range. I don't want to reduce the performance in the RPM range I drive just to move the improvements higher up the range.

 

[SRadke]

The qustion is... . do you want to be able to SUSTAIN 450-500 hp or just achieve it on a dyno and for short bursts? To sustain it, twins. To achieve it, my Killer B2 is a very driveable/towable turbo that will dyno into the mid 500's.



-Scott

 

[Fred Swanson]

For your light footed driving, you will want spool. Just remember, no big single spools as quick as your stock 9cm.

 

[KBennett]

The guys at ATS had a set using the stock turbo and a larger turbo but I can't recall which one. It is on one of their employees 3rd gen trucks. He said that with 100HP injectors and a Edge EZ he feels that he is making close to 600 HP.

 

[Matt400]

The qustion is... . do you want to be able to SUSTAIN 450-500 hp or just achieve it on a dyno and for short bursts? To sustain it, twins. To achieve it, my Killer B2 is a very driveable/towable turbo that will dyno into the mid 500's.



-Scott

I don't do the dyno thing but I would like to be able to plant my foot down and leave it there while passing without running super high EGT's. I don't tow real heavy and will usually ad just 60hp while towing.



I guess what would be the decision maker is how big a single could I go to while maintaining the spool that twins would offer and if that single would keep EGT's in check.



Would be nice to see some sort of chart/graph showing those kinds of numbers. I am confident a single would do the hp I want but twins may provide better spool.

 

[bpenrod]

Matt,

I don't spend much time in the 1400-1600 rpm range so I'll have to take a drive and see how it is around there. Just drove it home form the shop (about 50 miles) and the turbo is a lot of fun. Driving with just a down pipe has a great sound, just a little loud. It seems to like the extra fuel to get spooled up but it does not seem much slower than the stocker. The big end is way fun, passing from 55 to 80 is a blink of an eye and the EGT's just touch 1350* to 1400* flat footed in 5th at about 105 mph and just about redline on the tach. That is with the VA at 50% and the Quad Race at the 140 hp setting. I should be able to do more drivability tests when I get the exhaust done this week.

 

[Tomeygun]

Matt,

I don't spend much time in the 1400-1600 rpm range so I'll have to take a drive and see how it is around there. Just drove it home form the shop (about 50 miles) and the turbo is a lot of fun. Driving with just a down pipe has a great sound, just a little loud. It seems to like the extra fuel to get spooled up but it does not seem much slower than the stocker. The big end is way fun, passing from 55 to 80 is a blink of an eye and the EGT's just touch 1350* to 1400* flat footed in 5th at about 105 mph and just about redline on the tach. That is with the VA at 50% and the Quad Race at the 140 hp setting. I should be able to do more drivability tests when I get the exhaust done this week.

Sradke, Bpenrod, Tomeygun



boy oh boy, seems the SO's really are the stuff of champions :-laf



BTW - So it seems the QUAD/VA stack is quite a nice one huh, Bpenrod ??

 

[bpenrod]

I think it is great!! maybe not as much power as the TST but a little easier on the instal and tons of adjustability. Then run very very smooth and seem to get along well together. Thinking of cranking the VA all the way up and see how it does EGT wise.....

 

[Tomeygun]

I think it is great!! maybe not as much power as the TST but a little easier on the instal and tons of adjustability. Then run very very smooth and seem to get along well together. Thinking of cranking the VA all the way up and see how it does EGT wise.....

Cool, very cool.



Does Quad know that the stack works? - That stack has the possibility of a 200+ hp stack, right?



Imagine the labels for both switchs/knobs... . (I CAN'T think of anything creative right now... but still would be cool )

 

[bpenrod]

It was Quad who suggested it to me! When I did the BETA test I took the VA off to get just the Quad box impressions. After talking to Quad and raving about the Xz box he mentioned the VA should make a good stack with his so it was off to the garage for me!! I only have the Quad swith in the cab, I use plug in modules to set the VA, not as handy but I rarely change the VA settings and with the cool down timer, pac brake and soon to be Gear Vendors I'm running out of room for switches!!!

 

[Matt400]

I don't spend much time in the 1400-1600 rpm range so I'll have to take a drive and see how it is around there.

That would be cool, with my auto and the road I drive I end up locked in OD at 1500-1600 to and from work. On that route there is no passing and its a 45-55 mph windy drive.



Getting up to speed I see 1800-2000 as it runs through the gears but suspect that will go down when I do the trans upgrades. Yep I haven't done that yet but partially for good reason, I want the power upgrades to match the transmission changes and am concerned a tight converter with big single will = a dog with my light footed driving unless I am into the go pedal all the time.

it does not seem much slower than the stocker. The big end is way fun, passing from 55 to 80 is a blink of an eye and the EGT's just touch 1350* to 1400* flat footed in 5th at about 105 mph and just about redline on the tach. That is with the VA at 50% and the Quad Race at the 140 hp setting.

Thats good news, but with just a down pipe you may find the EGT's again on the rise when you put the exhaust back on.

Is your VA C3. 2 #2 position about 90hp?

 

[bpenrod]

- That stack has the possibility of a 200+ hp stack, right?

The VA is listed at 130 hp and 270 ft/lbson the top setting and half that or 65 hp and 135 ft/lbs on the middle setting. Add in Quads 60, 90 and 140 selections and there are plenty of options! I'm hoping the VA at 65 hp and the Xz at 140 hp will put me over 400 hp at the tires and around 850 ish tq. Time to hit the Dyno again!! BTW, your Dyno run looked like a party!! Everyone wanted to watch!

 

[Digger]

bpenrod I should be picking my truck up today and I can tell you how your stack does with the B1-04 single turbo. I don't have the in cab adjustment on my VA hooked up, I just have it set to 50% and leave it there while adjusting the Quad bok inside the cab. My mechanic took it for a ride and said it spooled good with the quad off and the VA at 50% but I haven't driven it yet. If the B1-04 cools enough I may put the VA at 100% and just use the quad in the cab. With the stock turbo and the VA at full it got too hot too quick!!

Bill,



You didn't put the turbo on yourself? Where did you take it to? Should have taken to Silver03's shop.

 

[AK RAM]

I can tell you one thing, never in my wildest dreams would I have fathomed putting twins on my truck just because of the cost alone. I was as careful as I could be and tried to do things smartly, but it just doesn't work. Attainable vs sustainable will get you every time. It ain't fun anymore when you realize you can only go fast for 10 seconds at a time. 5 turbos later, I now have twins. If I would have come off the cash and went with twins to start with I could have saved myself a LOT of money. The initial cost will hurt I know, but nothing will beat it, you only have to do it once, and boy the satisfaction of knowing you finally got it right. You can step on the go pedal with everything turned all the way up and not have to worry a bit.

 

[bpenrod]

Bill,



You didn't put the turbo on yourself? Where did you take it to? Should have taken to Silver03's shop.

Digger,

I had my buddy who is a Chrysler mechanic help me with the install at his shop. It's a lot farther away but I go there for all the work on my truck and I'm able to help in the evenings when I'm off work. It is really nice to walk up to the parts counter and order any part I need, if it is not in stock it will be there in one day! I tried to keep it as factory looking as possible, heat shield, the metal tabs on the bolts, the bracket for the heater hose all went back in exactly like factory.

 

[Tomeygun]

Time to hit the Dyno again!! BTW, your Dyno run looked like a party!! Everyone wanted to watch!

cool, I look forward to hearing how you do!



And yes, it is a like a big ol party for guys that dont want to grow up



We just want to smoke, rattle, and make power- woo-hoo!!!

 

[TCluff]

i run piers twins and they are way too laggy , no power, no power, then bam space shuttle rocket ship acceleration, all over the road clutch smokin out of control drivin over all the cars in front of you untill you get it slowed down, i would recommend the killer b 64 or the sled puller66