Should I do a Single or Twins?

[Lonestar]

i run piers twins and they are way too laggy , no power, no power, then bam space shuttle rocket ship acceleration, all over the road clutch smokin out of control drivin over all the cars in front of you untill you get it slowed down, i would recommend the killer b 64 or the sled puller66

Then the Piers Twins it is!! :-laf

 

[Matt400]

i run piers twins and they are way too laggy , no power, no power, then bam space shuttle rocket ship acceleration, all over the road clutch smokin out of control drivin over all the cars in front of you untill you get it slowed down

Sounds fun at first. . but then once you get it slowed down the cycle starts all over again. Great for a weekend Hot Rod but not the daily transportation.

i would recommend the killer b 64 or the sled puller66

Thanks, I will take a look at those too.



The BD Super B looks good since they claim emediate response, fast spooling and then pull back some on my hp wishes, or maybe their twins.



I just don't want to repete my muscle car days when a big cam was cool but killed the daily drivability.

 

[Matt400]

5 turbos later, I now have twins. If I would have come off the cash and went with twins to start with I could have saved myself a LOT of money.

Excellent point and is the very reason I am entertaining the idea of twins to actually "save" time and money down the road.

You can step on the go pedal with everything turned all the way up and not have to worry a bit.

I would like that but. . can you turn everything off and cruise around with the same drivability as a stock truck? What Turbos are you running?

 

[Gypsyman]

I'm running the PDR twins and I don't have any problem with lag at all. Drivability is just fine in my opinion. With just the little VA pressure box on she drives real nice too. If you have a problem with lag go with a 35/3b combo or just get a TST with the correct program and you'll have all the roll in power you want. I agree with AK on wasting money trying singles. I should've gone straight to twins also.



Richard

 

[Matt400]

I don't have any problem with lag at all. Drivability is just fine in my opinion. With just the little VA pressure box on she drives real nice too.

Hey Richard,

Are you saying she drives nice due to the boost fooling the VA provides in the off position or do you mean drives nice with the box turned up? For everyday driving I turn them all off for economy and drive train dependability then up a little for towing and hit the afterburners once in a great while.

 

[Gypsyman]

I meant that if you wanted a little more bottom end and spool the little 40 hp VA is a great match with the 40/3B combo. Helps to liven up the bottom end. If you really spend a lot of time with the boxes off I would look at the 35/3B.



I spent my time with the B1-2-04 and it spools almost identical to the stocker but in my opinion it's only good to the 350/400 hp range if you want it to live. Once I started to really put the fuel to it I wasn't impressed. If I was going to stick with just a pressure box or around a 100 rwhp gain it would have been just fine. Excellent little towing turbo also when used with an aggressive pressure box.



jmho



Richard

 

[SRadke]

FWIW I would never turn my TST off. Setting 1 is timing advance with no additional fuel. This will net me an increase of about 1. 5 mpg with about the same as stock power. No reason to ever go down to setting 0 (stock).



-Scott

 

[ThomasLawrence]

I'm running the PDR twins and I don't have any problem with lag at all. Drivability is just fine in my opinion.

I'll second that, as well. I'm also running Piers' 40/3B set, with a TST and an Edge EZ (currently on level 2). In the mornings, I start out with the TST on 0 (stock), and drive it easy until the temp comes up. Several times, I've forgotten to turn the TST back up. No, I'm not saying that I still had rocketship-like power, but for normal commuting, the driveability and throttle response was fine. It's very comparable to a stock truck at that point.



Of course, with the TST dialed in, well... that's a different story



-Tom

 

[ChrisRyan]

twins have been the best upgrade i've ever done to my 03.

 

[Matt400]

I may be in a bit of a catch 22, One company that sells both singles and twins said twins might be a bad idea for my driving style as they require some decent exhaust flow to get them spinning while on the other hand a big single would for sure reduce performance in the RPM range I drive with either one only enhancing the mid to upper rpm's while lowing the bottom end.



Maybe just a little bigger charger with a nitrous tank for the few times I want it but that doesn't help allot for towing EGT's

 

[SRadke]

You could build a set of twins using the stock charger on top if you want. That would provide spoolup and driveabiliy virtually the same as stock until you get on it. You won't get the big top end high hp airflow but 500 hp is well within reason. Most people dopn't do this because they can get that much from a single but like you say, big singles have drawbacks.



-Scott

 

[Matt400]

You could build a set of twins using the stock charger on top if you want. That would provide spoolup and driveabiliy virtually the same as stock until you get on it. You won't get the big top end high hp airflow but 500 hp is well within reason. Most people dopn't do this because they can get that much from a single but like you say, big singles have drawbacks.

Might just be the ticket. . except I thought over 100hp on the stock charger would over spin it.

I signed up for May Madness for the first time and already have a feeling I will be dropping bucks at the vendor thing.

 

[SRadke]

Might just be the ticket. . except I thought over 100hp on the stock charger would over spin it.

Put in an external wastegate and you can hold the small charger to whatever boost you want. That's the beauty of twins, half as much load on two charger equals more, cooler air!



-Scott

 

[Evan A. Beck]

... big singles have drawbacks.



-Scott

Yeah, for the guys selling twins.



I'll put up any of our single turbo trucks with the same HP as a twinned one. Drivability is just so much better with a single. Most guys that tell you that you need twins have never experienced a properly setup engine with a single.



It's all about selecting the right combination of parts. A 465 HP truck can feel a lot stronger than a 510 HP one, and even outpull it. It's all about usable power, and how it feels throughout the powerband. A slow peak to 3200 RPM is useless, even if it is making over 500 HP... A power range from 2200-3000 is much better. I will find some dyno graphs to post.



Hey Richard, when are you going to come by and dyno your truck again? All of us down at the shop are curious to see how it all panned out!

 

[Don-T]

I think a bunch of us are confused now. Let’s use my truck as an example. I have a 04 305/555 motor. I have an AFE intake, a full 4" exhaust, a FASS system, and a TST box (the newer software not so aggressive). In order to use the TST on settings 7/7 and up would I be better off with a single or twins. I drive about 80 miles a day on the freeways the mornings traffic is light, but in the evening it is a lot of stop and go. I also have a 13k lbs fifth wheel camper that I pull as often as possible. I don't want to have high EGT issues when we go to Colorado. I would rather not turn the box down to 3/3 (5/5 would be good) to keep the temps down. I know I can put a big single on it and be able to pull the camper up the mountains, but what about drivability in traffic with and without the camper?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I can tell you one thing, never in my wildest dreams would I have fathomed putting twins on my truck just because of the cost alone. I was as careful as I could be and tried to do things smartly, but it just doesn't work. Attainable vs sustainable will get you every time. It ain't fun anymore when you realize you can only go fast for 10 seconds at a time. 5 turbos later, I now have twins. If I would have come off the cash and went with twins to start with I could have saved myself a LOT of money. The initial cost will hurt I know, but nothing will beat it, you only have to do it once, and boy the satisfaction of knowing you finally got it right. You can step on the go pedal with everything turned all the way up and not have to worry a bit.

I did the same thing... Now I won't own a truck without them. I am a bit more motivated to have twins than most though

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I may be in a bit of a catch 22, One company that sells both singles and twins said twins might be a bad idea for my driving style as they require some decent exhaust flow to get them spinning while on the other hand a big single would for sure reduce performance in the RPM range I drive with either one only enhancing the mid to upper rpm's while lowing the bottom end.



Maybe just a little bigger charger with a nitrous tank for the few times I want it but that doesn't help allot for towing EGT's

Sorry I took so long, somebody sent a link to this thread asking for input Thusday evening and I haven't had a chance to read and reply 'til now.



A properly designed set of compound chargers will spool nealy as well as stock and be capable of about twice as much power as the stock turbo while keeping EGTs in check. The same twin kit using a B1-04 is capable of over 700hp if you can supply the fuel to make it.



I use a TAD B2 (more flow Than a BHT3B but faster spooling), a large external wastegate and the stock turbo.



The ATS twins that use the stock turbo are mine. with a bit of tuning a set of twins can gain fuel mileage (or at least not cost you any) reduce egts and keep you off the smog patrol's radar. You get the best of both worlds... stock like spool with better than big single top end.



Craig monroe has the first set of 3g twins from my shop (prototypes) and other than a few minor adjustments for fit they are just like production kits. He is able to set boost limits from 20-60psi and attain 1100* preturbo egts flat footed in Denver with 100hp injectors and an EZ on his '04.



He is able to adjust the wastegate to open early on the highway and gain 1-2 mpg. This is done with an adjustable boost controller so that the little turbo is wastegated below 10psi while cruising at fairly constant speeds. It allows you to reduce the amount of boost you 'carry' running 80+mph. The less boost you make while maintaining reasonable EGTs the better your fuel economy is. The net was about 2mpg on a 800mi road trip (when he left my shop headed back to denver). That was before the B2 was broken in.



Later,

Mark

 

[patcarman]

correct me if i am wrong here. . please!i have the hy on my 01,i felt i needed a better charger cause i was not ready for twins, so i got a good charger for abot 450 horse and spools great like stock,now you already have the top charger, now when your ready(money wise)get the rest, but your not waisting any money!thats how im doing it.

 

[Duck]

This is a great thread, as I go back and forth between doing a single or twins.



Single Pros: Easy install, fewer points of failure, no boost fooling required, can use my existing AirRaid intake box.



Twin Pros: Lots of air = lower EGT's under sustained runs, quicker spool up with the right combo.



$$$ is not the driving factor, I'm just wondering of twins is worth "the hassle" for my ideal setup.

Compound/parallel, upper lower, stock/large large/larger, wastegated vs non, exhaust brake complications, boost fooling, air filtration... . It's enough to drive you crazy! I'm tempted to go with a single just because my options would be more limited, making the decision making process much much easier

 

[bpenrod]

Duck,

Why do you say no boost fooling required on a single? I thought you had to fool the ECM to keep from getting the check engine light??