Should I do a Single or Twins?

[Duck]

I've only read about boost fooling req on twins, not singles. You're right though, might be both.

Anyone?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

correct me if i am wrong here. . please!i have the hy on my 01,i felt i needed a better charger cause i was not ready for twins, so i got a good charger for abot 450 horse and spools great like stock,now you already have the top charger, now when your ready(money wise)get the rest, but your not waisting any money!thats how im doing it.

You're not wasting money if... You use the turbo in the twins or sell the turbo for somewhere near what you paid for it.



With the HY that came on the 2g trucks a bigger top charger is better. The 3g HY seems to handle a bit more abuse/flow. Its hard to compare them because the fueling systems on the two trucks are so different that a valid comparison is almost impossible.



All twin setups benefit from a bigger compressor on the small charger but you have to match the compressors, turbines, and wastegates properly to get a good 'behaving' set of turbos.



Later,

Mark

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

This is a great thread, as I go back and forth between doing a single or twins.



Single Pros: Easy install, fewer points of failure, no boost fooling required, can use my existing AirRaid intake box.



Twin Pros: Lots of air = lower EGT's under sustained runs, quicker spool up with the right combo.



$$$ is not the driving factor, I'm just wondering of twins is worth "the hassle" for my ideal setup.

Compound/parallel, upper lower, stock/large large/larger, wastegated vs non, exhaust brake complications, boost fooling, air filtration... . It's enough to drive you crazy! I'm tempted to go with a single just because my options would be more limited, making the decision making process much much easier

Boost fooling is required on all trucks. A properly designed set of twins is little or no more mainenance than a normal truck. They are harder to install and oil changes are a bit more cumbersome (walmart accomplishes my oil changes w/o extra charge). They ARE worth it.



they are more adjustable and take a bit of 'fiddling' with to get them tuned to your truck and driving style. the fiddling is merely the adjustment of the wastegate to get the boost level you need or want. It's not as hard as it sounds.



A 'boost controller' is usually as simple as a pneumatic air tool regulator that allows you to either blow open or hold shut the wastegate to adjust the amount of boost made by the turbos.

 

[Duck]

So, you don't need to go out and buy an electronic box to accomplish the boost fooling?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

So, you don't need to go out and buy an electronic box to accomplish the boost fooling?

Boost fooling is built into almost all boxes. . at least for the 2g trucks and I assume the same for a 3g.



A boost fooler keeps the ECM from seeing true boost. A boost controller controls how much boost you make.



You need a boost controller (sometimes) with twins.



Almost all 'turned up' electronically controlled trucks use/need boost fooling.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Yeah, for the guys selling twins.



I'll put up any of our single turbo trucks with the same HP as a twinned one. Drivability is just so much better with a single. Most guys that tell you that you need twins have never experienced a properly setup engine with a single.



It's all about selecting the right combination of parts. A 465 HP truck can feel a lot stronger than a 510 HP one, and even outpull it. It's all about usable power, and how it feels throughout the powerband. A slow peak to 3200 RPM is useless, even if it is making over 500 HP... A power range from 2200-3000 is much better. I will find some dyno graphs to post.



Hey Richard, when are you going to come by and dyno your truck again? All of us down at the shop are curious to see how it all panned out!

How can driveability be better on a 600hp single than a 600hp twinned truck?



A properly set up twinned truck will spool faster and have lower EGTs supplying more USEABLE power than a big single.



Maybe you've not been in a 'properly' setup twinned truck

 

[Gypsyman]

Hey Richard, when are you going to come by and dyno your truck again? All of us down at the shop are curious to see how it all panned out!

If your referring to me I've never been on your dyno.



Richard

 

[Evan A. Beck]

How can driveability be better on a 600hp single than a 600hp twinned truck?



A properly set up twinned truck will spool faster and have lower EGTs supplying more USEABLE power than a big single.

*LOL* #ad

Maybe you've not been in a 'properly' setup twinned truck

Maybe you have never been in a properly setup single turbo truck?



I must have been mistaken Richard. Your truck was at our shop for a bit, and I guess I thought we dynoed it. Come on by for a visit sometime!

 

[TCluff]

just get the twins, with twins you have drivability, egt control, and when the big lower turbo turbo kicks in, by the way, it is going to be bigger than any single, you will be smilin, ear to ear every time, i run piers twins, still boosting 35 psi on tst timing only and around 50 psi on 2x2, with just the ramifier it will boost almost 50, run the tst on 3x2 and the ts on 100, and the blow offs are working great at 60psi, at first i thought the twins were way laggy, but running the tst twins program on 7x7 and the ts on 100, it will spool as fast, if not faster than a stock fueled stock truck, and maxing egts about 1450 inside of #5 ex port, as for the stock bolts and head gasket are holding up great, i have about 6000 miles on the twins and the only damage is the slipping single ceramic clutch..... i love my twins and i am getting ready to fab up a set for a friends 12 valve, they will be a hx35-16 and ht3b-26 just a reminder, running timing only, 1x1 tst, still getting a hand calculated 21. 7mpg at 75mph with 37'' bfg mts and 6 inch lift, empty truck at 5700 ft elevation... hope this helps

 

[mrsnow]

A quick side question, at what point are studs and rings needed?

 

[Matt400]

No expert on that question however in all the reading I have done seems like 50 is safe and above that its a good idea to pull the head.



So close to doing twins and now the Jammer BB turbo comes along, spools like stock, is efficient to 53 psi. Drive pressures reported lower than boost into the 40's

No waste gate so you control boost with fueling settings. Sounds too good to be true.

 

[Tomeygun]

So close to doing twins and now the Jammer BB turbo comes along, spools like stock, is efficient to 53 psi. Drive pressures reported lower than boost into the 40's

No waste gate so you control boost with fueling settings. Sounds too good to be true.

I was in the same boat, BUT without a wastegate, it just seems too risky, After seeing B1's blown because of no wastegate



Even with the warranty, What if i break one because the extremely fast fueling of the TST? Sure they will give me another, but why get another of what just broke??



I think until someone with a TST tries it (on 9x9) - I will wait, Besides I bought a used Sledpuller 66

 

[Matt400]

I was in the same boat, BUT without a wastegate, it just seems too risky

True... its not for everyone. I feel 50 psi is max for head bolts and gasket anyway plus its still efficient there. I doubt I will feed it enough fuel to see pressures that high. I would be worried about the HG and Bolts before the turbo.

 

[Tomeygun]

I feel 50 psi is max for head bolts and gasket anyway plus its still efficient there.

Good point, and Keith at Diesel Dynamics said that his 500hp truck made 38psi



SOOO, you might be right, it might take quite a bit of HP to get it to turn high enough PSI to break (like 650+)

 

[Matt400]

If it works as advertised it sounds like the perfect single all the way 50 psi and if you want more than that its time to go twins and pull the head.