Should I upgrade to an 05 or 06 CTD from a 98 12 valve CTD truck?

[HerbW]

Hi. I'm not writing to start any wars just great options from my friends here. I have a 1998 dodge quad cab diesel 4x4 that I keep thinking about upgrading to a newer Dodge diesel. After a lot of searching, it seems like an 05 or 06 would be the best ones to go for.
My Truck never lets me down but from new they blast smoke on start up. I know the newer ones can be started remotely even. I think of Megacab just to fit my grandsons as they grow and to have four regular doors instead of quad.

Am I crazy somewhat? Opinions please. Thanks, Herb

 

[Dieselnerd]

My '05 was the best truck I've owned for towing power and reliability. I kept it stock and it was still a good truck when I recently upgraded to a 2014. Before that I had a '96 12 valve that I felt I could fix almost everything on myself. It was easy to work on but not nearly as smooth or quiet as the '05 and had a lot of little things that needed fixing from time to time. The newer common rail trucks have a lot more sensors and electronics but mine kept on going with few problems.

Going from a '98 to an '05 or '06 is not a bad idea. The '06 is the first year they changed from a lot of fuses to where the truck just shut off the bad circuit. This can be an issue where the dealer has to do the reset. Looking at past problems on TDR, the '06 seemed to have more electrical issues than the '05. People with an '06 may chime in and have better info on that year than I can provide.

 

[jgillott]

Herb, also keep in mind that the early 2007's (up to the end of 2006 production date) were also equipped with the 5.9L. They also had some of the known electrical issues, such as the trouble with the instrument cluster, fixed by that point.

We have 2 of them right now, an 04.5 and 07 both purchased new. With the exception of front axle u-joints on both trucks, ball joints on the '04.5, and the blend doors on the '07, they have been excellent.

 

[p-Bar]

05's had plastic endcaps for the intercooler some got replaced as they failed . I have 04.5 been very good truck . don't buy 07.5 up as you will be dealing with DPF problems. Also be sure the CAT is in place when you purchase

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

To meet stiffer emissions regs for 2004.5 up, cam timing was changed, etc. and a catalytic converter was added. Therefore I would prefer a 2003-early 2004/305 HP. However, some things are expensive for these later trucks, such as injectors. If your 98 12 valve is in good condition, keep it instead of trading for a set of unknowns. Or, save your pennies and maybe there will still be some great deals on leftover 2013s. For me the pinnacle years were 97-8 12 valve, 03-04 HO, and 2013-14 385HP with Aisin trans.

 

[Wayne M.]

I can see upgrading to the fuller quad cab of a third gen truck, however you're leaving behind one heckuva great truck in your 12 valve. I have no real complaints with my 04.5. Have you started the search for a replacement?

 

[Shadrach]

"... the pinnacle years were 97-8 12 valve, 03-04 HO, and 2013-14 385HP with Aisin trans. " I agree with this statement. The only drawback I see to you current truck, other than it getting older, is the back seat size. I like my 03, although the back seat is a little small for teenagers. I don't ride back there and I have too much money into it to get rid of it right now. Decide what you need for cab size and what you do with the truck, haul or towing. I do like the "crew cab" body of the 2010 and up but I also like the engine you have. I chose the 03 because I like that version of engine compared to 04.5-07 and didn't need a mega cab. I also wanted a long box. The HPCR are quieter and the 4 doors are more family friendly. Each generation has it own glitches. In the long run it usually boils down to how much you want/have to spend and what comes along at that time. Good luck choosing. David

 

[CCiatteo]

Don't do it. I regret every moment selling my 97 12v, 5spd 4x4. That truck was as stone cold reliable, efficient and powerful as they come, the problem was it simply rusted away. The dodge part couldn't keep up with the Cummins part. My "new" 2004.5 is a sexier, more refined, more user friendly truck, but the automatic transmission (in stock form) leaves a lot to be desired. The injectors are expensive when it comes time (and it will come time), the fuel filtration is marginal at best in stock form, the fuel efficiency is easily 2-3 mpg less than the truck you are walking away from (my experience mid 18's down to high 15's/low 16's) and with all that being said, I think the advantage to owning a newer diesel truck has come and gone. The outstanding mileage compared is no longer there, the low maintenance costs after the initial purchase have eroded as well. I think a real long look needs to be taken as to how you use the truck, what your tolerance for fuel economy is, especially considering the cost of diesel, and how long your really see yourself owning the truck. After doing all that, you may find that the diesel option just doesn't make $en$e any more.

If I could undo my purchase and get my 12v back, I'd do it in a heartbeat and pay the guy double to do it. That was the last truly great diesel powered truck, hands down. My "new" truck is nice, the rear cab area is much more usable, the ride is better, the interior is laid out better, but I'd trade all the "nice" to get the simplicity, economy and durability and unwavering reliability of my 12v back. I drive my "new" truck like its on eggshells, just waiting for the injectors to fail, transmission to give out and fuel pump to sputter and die. And my new truck hasn't given me an ounce of trouble, so I'm not scorned due to some large repair bill I just swallowed, its just I know that it IS coming.

If the 98 12v is structurally sound, the drivetrain is in good shape, then I'd run it until there's nothing left, then rebuild it and start over.

 

[chipster]

If you decide to go to an 06, I have one ready to go. quad cab, long bed,4x4, auto, $15k in add ons. 30k miles. No mods, set up for towing my airstream tongue pull trailer. If interested and need more info get back to me. would like to get 28 to 30k, depending if you want all or just some of the "stuff".
Thanks,
chip

 

[Wayne M.]

Chris, I agree and disagree on some of your points. As I mentioned that Herb is about to walk away from a good truck, I don't think the 3 gen trucks should be put down so much. I know that in my personal situation, completely restoring a vehicle is not possible. If it were, I would have done a custom cab extension and powertrain upgrade on my 'ol '92, which I think is even better than the 2 gen trucks in many ways. I know that there were some bad decisions in the spec of the 3 gen trucks such as the fuel filtration system, but I don't think things are as fragile as you make them. All of your concerns with the fuel system and transmission can be dealt with in a reasonable manner. I know I am still saving up for a secondary fuel filter kit. When considering the new 4 gen trucks, I feel as you do here. That I'm keeping my '04, and that, thanks to the gov. the diesel "party" might be over for most of us.
Nothings perfect.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Many on this forum remember how great my '97 (Ol' Sickly) was. Its main shortcomings relative to Third and Fourth Gen were brakes and rear seat size. The early '04 Quad Cab pretty much fixed those things, but the engine was harder and more expensive to work on. The NV5600 was stout after Std. Trans. blueprinted it and installed the Power Lube Package, but by nature just doesn't shift as nicely as the NV4500 five speed. The '04 interior was more comfortable for me. I planned to keep it forever, until I heard at May Madness and the Cummins rally last June what improvements were made for 2013. The Rams are now very refined products and the Crew Cab has a huge rear seat. Now I feel that the new ones are worth getting, and are better by a long way, unless you want a dyno queen or a drag racer--if so, stay with the 12 valve and instead of spending the basket full of money on a new Ram which comes real close to what 99% of us want to have even without upgrades. You will spend that basket of money on the 12 valve if you want to use it as a racer. Also realize that maintenance costs will take some of that money as the 12 valve gets older. A few things are these: brakes, steering, suspension, component rebuilds, cracks in the cylinder head if power is over about 180 HP, on and on.

 

[AH64ID]

To meet stiffer emissions regs for 2004.5 up, cam timing was changed, etc.

The cam difference in 03-04 vs 04.5-07 is one of the biggest internet misnomers about the two engine series. The cam is the same from 03-07, not one cam builder I have talked with has ever measured a difference between the two and they have the same part number. Pistons, Nozzles, Turbo, and tuning are the 4 big changes for emissions.

 

[Regcabguy]

I miss my '98.5 seats. That's it.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I heard that the 03-04 cam was superceded with the later part number. I never cared enough to put a degree wheel and dial indicator on them to make sure. The end result was that most folks got a bit lower mpg with the later engine.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Wish I could have my conversion 12Valve in my 04.5 body, 04.5 has been a great truck but has way to many gizz-matichees on it for me, the plain and simple 12 valve is a good motor

 

[AH64ID]

I heard that the 03-04 cam was superceded with the later part number. I never cared enough to put a degree wheel and dial indicator on them to make sure. The end result was that most folks got a bit lower mpg with the later engine.

I originally heard the same thing, but after talking with several companies that build cams they said they could never find a difference in the two. Several engine builders have found the same.

Yes the 04.5+ get a little lower mileage, mainly from the loss of injection timing to reduce the NOx production. A little off topic, but here it is anyhow. This is MY04.5 timing compared to MY03 timing. In general MY04.5 needs more timing for the same performance, based on piston design, than MY03 pistons. The cruise timing is a little higher on MY04.5 tuning, but the rest of it is much lower. Just food for thought, things like rail pressure also effect timing and duration, but the biggest different is right here. There are some claims that at 60 the MY04.5 tuning gets better economy, and that is possible but add any sort of load and the MY03 wins.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I originally heard the same thing, but after talking with several companies that build cams they said they could never find a difference in the two. Several engine builders have found the same.

Yes the 04.5+ get a little lower mileage, mainly from the loss of injection timing to reduce the NOx production. A little off topic, but here it is anyhow. This is MY04.5 timing compared to MY03 timing. In general MY04.5 needs more timing for the same performance, based on piston design, than MY03 pistons. The cruise timing is a little higher on MY04.5 tuning, but the rest of it is much lower. Just food for thought, things like rail pressure also effect timing and duration, but the biggest different is right here. There are some claims that at 60 the MY04.5 tuning gets better economy, and that is possible but add any sort of load and the MY03 wins.

What are we talking about here a 1/2 MPG, 1 or 2 MPG, and what if any power is it really that detectable?

 

[cerberusiam]

after talking with several companies that build cams they said they could never find a difference in the two.

That is cuz THEY don't want you or anybody else to know what they do with the cams so they can claim they are the best. Magical, mystical trade secrets and all. :-laf

The real truth is the minor differneces that define a cam profile mean almost nothing on a forced induction engine when it comes to all out power, it is only noticeable in the efficiency range when tuned to such lengths.

Funny thing is one of the big makers DID publish the diffeerences quite a while ago. Then again, it was on an internet forum so.........


The ultimate development in these trucks with a 5.9 is by far MY05 models, enough complexity to make it really good but not so much it starts to be a huge detriment. Going forward gets a neglible change in any of the drivetrain components. In the body styles the MC is the only bonus. The electronics are the really big problem, the first implementation of the CAN systems and the TIPM are a big negative. Better than the 6.7's but not a bonus over the 05 models.

Any of them over a 98 12V is still akin to going from a Chevy coupe to a Caddy sedan, its all in the perception.

 

[Wayne M.]

The ultimate development in these trucks with a 5.9 is by far MY05 models, enough complexity to make it really good but not so much it starts to be a huge detriment.

Can you quantify differences between the '05 and the '04.5? Besides the rams head on the tailgate, and maybe the G56?

 

[AH64ID]

The APPS setups and fuel transfer pump are different, as well as the intercooler.