Should I upgrade to an 05 or 06 CTD from a 98 12 valve CTD truck?

[cerberusiam]

APPS moved inside the cab where it is no longer an issue, especially with the manual trucks and a hard to get item.

LP moved to the tank where it is has proven to be a MUCH better setup.

Complete lack of ANY vacuum source and component under the hood. Along with that CC\SC is all done in the ECU with no additional components to fail.

With the auto trucks a true TH system not just OD off. Granted, factory deleted the OD lockout where 06 brought it back, but a simple add-on gives that and more functionality than the 06.

The IC I think is a but better, disregarding the early 05 models with the plastic tanks.

Last but not least, 10 ft\lbs more TQ. The most powerful 5.9 in the simplest platform.

 

[AH64ID]

Early 05's had the NV5600 while late 05's had the G56.

 

[MarkP]

I have had a 95, 01, 02, and still have my 02, 06 and a 10. My 95 went 317000 miles and averaged 19 miles per gallon, by way of standard cab and two wheel drive with a stick. I dont miss the days of lift pump replacements and brake jobs on a regular basis. Sometimes our memories fade and are not that accurate. My 95, 01 and the 02 all left me stranded more than once. I love my 06 dually laramie stick 4x4. I would upgrade in a heartbeat.....

 

[CCiatteo]

Chris, I agree and disagree on some of your points. As I mentioned that Herb is about to walk away from a good truck, I don't think the 3 gen trucks should be put down so much. I know that in my personal situation, completely restoring a vehicle is not possible. If it were, I would have done a custom cab extension and powertrain upgrade on my 'ol '92, which I think is even better than the 2 gen trucks in many ways. I know that there were some bad decisions in the spec of the 3 gen trucks such as the fuel filtration system, but I don't think things are as fragile as you make them. All of your concerns with the fuel system and transmission can be dealt with in a reasonable manner. I know I am still saving up for a secondary fuel filter kit. When considering the new 4 gen trucks, I feel as you do here. That I'm keeping my '04, and that, thanks to the gov. the diesel "party" might be over for most of us.
Nothings perfect.

I may have been a bit harsh on my "new" truck, and I agree that completely restoring a 2nd gen is not reasonable for most of us, from a time standpoint alone (money aside).

Many on this forum remember how great my '97 (Ol' Sickly) was. Its main shortcomings relative to Third and Fourth Gen were brakes and rear seat size. The early '04 Quad Cab pretty much fixed those things, but the engine was harder and more expensive to work on. The NV5600 was stout after Std. Trans. blueprinted it and installed the Power Lube Package, but by nature just doesn't shift as nicely as the NV4500 five speed. The '04 interior was more comfortable for me. I planned to keep it forever, until I heard at May Madness and the Cummins rally last June what improvements were made for 2013. The Rams are now very refined products and the Crew Cab has a huge rear seat. Now I feel that the new ones are worth getting, and are better by a long way, unless you want a dyno queen or a drag racer--if so, stay with the 12 valve and instead of spending the basket full of money on a new Ram which comes real close to what 99% of us want to have even without upgrades. You will spend that basket of money on the 12 valve if you want to use it as a racer. Also realize that maintenance costs will take some of that money as the 12 valve gets older. A few things are these: brakes, steering, suspension, component rebuilds, cracks in the cylinder head if power is over about 180 HP, on and on.

One major upgrade on my "new" truck, that should be given credit for is the braking system. The 97 was borderline dangerous under all but the best conditions, and while towing you had to absolutely be on your game at all times (as you should be) and leave room to spare just in case, but the new truck is a confidence inspiring setup. The truck actually stops and does so without causing drama. So the new truck isn't all bad, but the injection system and fuel delivery system seem to be less than well thought out and the auto transmission is just a mushy, no feel, slush box of a thing. Yeah there are programmers and transmission builds to address these short comings, but those come with a price tag. I was just spoiled by the first truck, and when your start at the top, there's no place to go but down.

 

[Shadrach]

I have seen an 03 with a twin turbo 98 12 valve in it. Runs good but a lot of work to make the electronics work. Go borrow a "newer" one and see how you like it. Every year has it's good points and bad and some people will put up with some things while other won't. David

 

[BIGNASTY]

I have seen an 03 with a twin turbo 98 12 valve in it. Runs good but a lot of work to make the electronics work. Go borrow a "newer" one and see how you like it. Every year has it's good points and bad and some people will put up with some things while other won't. David

I use to take the In-laws 10 out but I don't like it, either does he. I want nothing to do with the exhaust treatment experiments. They seem to be a PITA. For the 12 valve I will just stay with the 72 Chevy 4x4 with a 12 valve it has, its only problem is the gearing, I use it local because the engine runs up the RPM pretty high to be driving any great distance.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I wasn't thrilled with the emissions approach from 2007.5--2012 either. The DEF approach for 2013-14 is entirely different. Timing is advanced to where it should be, the injection etc. has been revised and the engine produces very little soot, but better power than ever. Mileage is back to where it was 10-15 years ago, even though the truck is heavier.

 

[Wayne M.]

APPS moved inside the cab where it is no longer an issue, especially with the manual trucks and a hard to get item.

LP moved to the tank where it is has proven to be a MUCH better setup.

Complete lack of ANY vacuum source and component under the hood. Along with that CC\SC is all done in the ECU with no additional components to fail.

With the auto trucks a true TH system not just OD off. Granted, factory deleted the OD lockout where 06 brought it back, but a simple add-on gives that and more functionality than the 06.

The IC I think is a but better, disregarding the early 05 models with the plastic tanks.

Last but not least, 10 ft\lbs more TQ. The most powerful 5.9 in the simplest platform.

I didn't know some of those differences (some I forgot) I don't know if any of those differences would make someone choose one over the other if the right deal was at hand.

 

[Wayne M.]

One major upgrade on my "new" truck, that should be given credit for is the braking system.

Yes, The brakes are beyond excellent. In unloaded form, I think my truck handles and stops beautifully for what it is. I once had a die hard GM truck guy make me stop so he could get out and see the "3500" on the door.

 

[Ozymandias]

For me the best Upgrade was clearly the TC, that piece changed the mushy feeling of the Trans completely into a far better behavior.

It's recommended for everyone that has the money for it, now it is responsible to throttle close to a stick shift.

 

[Wayne M.]

I wasn't thrilled with the emissions approach from 2007.5--2012 either. The DEF approach for 2013-14 is entirely different. Timing is advanced to where it should be, the injection etc. has been revised and the engine produces very little soot, but better power than ever. Mileage is back to where it was 10-15 years ago, even though the truck is heavier.

Indeed, Joe. My experience is with Mack MP7 in both 2008(DPF only) and 2010 (DPF/SCR) configs, in a fleet setting. They run like two completely different engines, and the '10 is much less trouble- as long as the DEF tank stays clean.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I wasn't thrilled with the emissions approach from 2007.5--2012 either. The DEF approach for 2013-14 is entirely different. Timing is advanced to where it should be, the injection etc. has been revised and the engine produces very little soot, but better power than ever. Mileage is back to where it was 10-15 years ago, even though the truck is heavier.

Don't get me wrong Mr. Donnelly the new trucks are nice and as long as they are under warranty, I guess that everything would be fine. I buy vehicles and keep them until the wheels fall off so changing trucks every few years just to move to a MAYBE better way of doing things just wont happen. I like my 04.5 because of its better simplicity compared to the newer trucks and it has way to many electrical/computer things on it, like I said I would love to have a 12 valve in my 04 from the factory.

I have a friend that owns a small fleet of class 8 trucks some are the kind that use Diesel to Re-gen some are the ones that use DEF to work, The down time having his trucks tied up in the shop is killing him, and now they are out of warranty and the cost of repair is making him think about throwing in the towel on his business. Its not the mechanicals of the truck that are going down, its the POS exhaust emissions stuff!

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Bosch bought Tenneco so now Chrysler/Ram holds Bosch accountable for both the fuel and exhaust system performance. If you come to May Madness, you can give Chrysler marketing and warranty representatives the opportunity to address your concerns. I too appreciate the simplicity of the mechanically injected 12-valve, but in their defense, the new trucks have been very reliable and most of the TSBs have been for software updates. The entire powertrain is warranted for 5 years and 100,000 miles now. Your choice, and it somewhat depends on use. On the ranch, simple is good. If you get it filthy, full of dust, beat up, worn out seats, etc. so what. When you want a nice ride, comfortable for a long trip at 75 mph, etc. then the new ones have more appeal.

 

[p-Bar]

Joe ,
I see you have that new 13' will you be giving us a review of the truck?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Yes, but it will be over the next few issues.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Bosch bought Tenneco so now Chrysler/Ram holds Bosch accountable for both the fuel and exhaust system performance. If you come to May Madness, you can give Chrysler marketing and warranty representatives the opportunity to address your concerns. I too appreciate the simplicity of the mechanically injected 12-valve, but in their defense, the new trucks have been very reliable and most of the TSBs have been for software updates. The entire powertrain is warranted for 5 years and 100,000 miles now. Your choice, and it somewhat depends on use. On the ranch, simple is good. If you get it filthy, full of dust, beat up, worn out seats, etc. so what. When you want a nice ride, comfortable for a long trip at 75 mph, etc. then the new ones have more appeal.

My truck isn't filthy, full of dust, beat up, worn out seats it gets used but not to abused. :-laf

I would go ANYPLACE in my truck right now!! and the very most that I would have to do to make it good to go, would be to change the oil and that would be depending on how far ANYPLACE is Don't know if you've been up this way but at 75 mph your considered a ROAD HAZZARD

But I get your point.

 

[fox]

My input.
I had first a 95 2500, loved it but had trans trouble,( in the early days of good trans technology) Sold it then bought a new 2002. Really nice truck and lost it two years ago to an accident.
So, I bought an 05 6 speed. Ok truck but it had issues with the heater doors and electical issues with the fan. A few other things too. It needed 3.42 gears, not the 3.73.
Guess what I drive now?
An early 1998--12 valve. It might be a little short on creature comforts compared to the 05 but it is far more reliable and gets better mpg. Just as much power to , now that it is modifies a little. It will run almost forever with few problems designed into it as I stated above.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I must have been thinking of HH's truck, lol. I was in MT once, to hunt antelope outside Dodson, 10-12 years ago, with John Kronfeld.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I must have been thinking of HH's truck, lol. I was in MT once, to hunt antelope outside Dodson, 10-12 years ago, with John Kronfeld.

:-laf Now ya gone and done it, HH will have me at the top of his list and you a close second!!

Haven't hunted prairie goats in MT, went one time with my Dad in WY goat capital of the U.S.

 

[JimB1]

06 & 07 have finished integrating electronics for tow/haul, cruise, exhaust brake w/auto trans.

Emissions blows near unbelievable low numbers for opacity/snap throttle and yep slam that baby to the floor, computer manages just fine ramp up ramp down.

Shopped long & close before deciding, fully integrated electronics is nice.