Shrimpy's Rear Axel Seal

[Shrimpy]

Well I'm back so call off the search party!!! First let me say thanks to all those who threw a possible solution my way, I do appreciate it. Especially Rodney who e-mailed me a pic of how the sleeve works. Now for the good stuff.

Had a problem finding a sleeve. Everyone looked at me like I was from Mars!!! Finally found a place that knew exactly what I was looking for. The owner of the Parts house asked why I needed it. Told him about my problem and he said that this was common on some Dana 60's and 70's. He said to feel for the "groove" on the bottom of the axel shaft, as this is where the "wear" problem tends to be. He went on to state that the hub nut needs to be torqued to spec. , he believed around 150 to 160 ftlbs. Said that alot of the reason for the wear begins with the hub not being torqued correctly.

When I started to work on it I noticed that the nut was definently NOT at 150 ftlbs of torque, maybe only 95 to 100 ftlbs. Per Rodney's instructions I measured the width of the area that the sleeve was to cover and thought I was O. K. You see the sleeve may have to be altered (shortened). Mine did but I mis-measured (Imagine that from the guy who always request the Idiot end of a tape measure). I of course found this out AFTER I hammered it on!!!!! DDDDDUUUUHHHHHOOO!!! The sleeve hung out about 1/32 to far to allow the bearing to rest agains it's stop. So I preceded to snip apart my $38. 00 sleeve!!!! I went ahead and stuck a Timken seal in the hub and put it back together and torqued it accordingly. 150+ ftlbs is quite a bit of torque!!! I definently did not have this much on it when I did the brakes early this month. After I finished the drivers side I went to the other side and retorqued it. Hopefully this fixed my problem, but only miles will tell. Again thanks guys for all the helpfull info on fixing my problem.

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, PW injectors, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 230,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

[drives mopars]

buy the sleeve so u have it, use 3'' pcv
pipe as tube to hit it on with i did
this 1 yr ago still ok, throw away pcv
pipe when done. use sleeve cement
i de check it in 30 days then 90

bill

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1993 w350 ex cab, banks,nv 4500 in
open exaust, pw Injectors are in. Big rig flaps,tach in,. Its loud and goes ok, for a 93,Ham radio Call KK6dm
has ability to communicate any where in the world. Headliner shelf
5 antenna's

 

[Cooker]

Shrimpy,

150lbs? Did you back off any? I just can't believe that these things need to be torqued to 150. Mine maybe have 100? I didn't use a torque wrench but it isn't that hard to hit 100 with a 3/4" drive.

Do you think the 150 is too much? After torquing to 150 how well does the wheel spin when you had it off the ground?

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[Shrimpy]

Cooker, I was like you I thought that 150 was to much but everything spins fine!!!! When I did my brakes, I did not have a service manual and treated it like a front hub. I tightened to what seemed like a pretty decent ooommmppphhh with a 1/2 drive, then backed it off a little (less than 1/3 of a turn). The torque spec in the manual says between 145 and 160 ftlbs!!! I used a cheapy Sears torque wrench, the kind with the sliding scale at the end. Maybe not a cheapy but not a good K&D, or Snap On that you set by dialing the torque in on the end of the handle. The wheel spun perfectly well. I did all adjustments with the wheel off and just the hub so that the weight from the wheel would not make it spin easier. I also went to the other side and torqued it. It was between 100 and 105 when I tightened it to 150+. It had the wheel on the hub as I just pulled the axel and tightened the nut. I noticed no difference in how it spun basis a before and after test.

I had to re-adjust my brakes on this side because the little keeper that the cable rides in had moved. This is the thing that rides in two holes in the brake shoe housing that keeps the cable tight to keep the adjuster from spinning and loosening. If I confuse anyone with the above jargon, pull your hub off and you will see what I am talking about!!!! The owner of the auto parts told me about this torque spec. and he was right on. Seems that fOrDs from 73 to 79 basically had the same axel. He had a mechanic shop behind his auto parts for years but does no mechanic work now. He also said that the wear on the axel would be on the bottom half. I felt a slight groove but did not feel that it was enough to cause a problem but we will see. He said that the groove would be very noticible for it to be the problem. He believed that improper torque spec was my problem. Only time will tell if this is a fix or not.

[This message has been edited by Shrimpy (edited 02-01-2001). ]

 

[CBratten]

Cooker,we had this issue come up on another post. Stated:I had torqued mine at 125 lbs. and no backing off. This was new to me also and didn't feel comfortable with this, but did it away. I've driven it 12,000 miles with no ill effects. But I think we may need to do some research to find out if this is the correct interpretation.

 

[paccool]

Guy's, you need to check a manual. It says to torque to 140 - 150 ft/lbs and then back off about 120 degrees. I backed mine off 90 degrees, seemed ok. If you leave them tight there is no place for things to expand when they get hot.
I'm doing this from memory as I'm on the road and do not have the book with me. the numbers may be a little different than I have posted but are close.

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Stan
93 2WD extended cab, Banks Power Pack, K&N Air Filter, PW Injectors,Auto w/4. 10 rear with limited slip, US Gear Exhaust Brake, 31/2" Exhaust, 5K air bags, Boost/Pyro/Tach Gauges, Green/Silver, new 40-20-40 bucket seats, 149K

 

[Shrimpy]

Paccol you are correct. I recieved my book (service manual) about the middle of Jan. It says to torque to 145 to 165 ftlbs then back off 120 degrees. Based on what the parts house owner / mechanic said I went to 145-150 and left it there.

I agree, it sounds high but so far no leak!!! I may pull my axels again next week just to recheck the torque and inspect the bearings. I will keep everyone informed about my progress (or lack their of).

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, PW injectors, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 230,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

[Cooker]

field-boss-cb,
yes we did. i'm still amazed that that much torque is the ticket. i'm not arguing, but just in disbelief. i will have to get a torque wrench and check things out, but i'm in no hurry.

Ryan

 

[paccool]

Shrimpy,

I went through this same thing a couple of months ago. Since then I have seen a post that said to be sure and replace both the axle nuts and the locking clips to insure things stay where they are supposed to. Did that mechanic say anything about this? Did you reuse or put in new?

I reused and am worried a little. Any one else got any comments?

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Stan
93 2WD extended cab, Banks Power Pack, K&N Air Filter, PW Injectors,Auto w/4. 10 rear with limited slip, US Gear Exhaust Brake, 31/2" Exhaust, 5K air bags, Boost/Pyro/Tach Gauges, Green/Silver, new 40-20-40 bucket seats, 149K

 

[Shrimpy]

Paccol, He told me to check them real good. If after torquing, there were previous "marks" on the plastic part where I would be inserting the little metal clip then replace the nuts. He was out of stock on the nuts so I went on blind faith that they would be O. K. Both sides were O. K. and I reused. But you have me a little concerned. When I recheck the torque next week I will replace the nuts for my own sanity!!!!

Cooker, not sure if this was for me but I did NOT take you comments as argumentative, but just good real world advice!!! I greatly appreciate all input from everyone on this thread.

A little more info, when mine started to leak again, when the brakes were applied the whole truck bucked. By that I mean that it was like the brakes would grab then release extremely fast. If I remember correct, it started out slow and within a day it was very noticiable.

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, PW injectors, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 230,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

[paccool]

Shrimpy,

Did the lock clips fit the groove good? Mine were too narrow and wanted to "roll over". I got one new one from the local Napa parts house(was all they had) and it was for a ford. It fit the groove perfectly. Reused one of the old ones on the other side.

Now you got me thinking about this and I'll probably have to replaced some stuff to get a good feel about things. Sure don't want the axle to come out!! #ad


Stan

 

[Shrimpy]

Paccool, Mine fit fine. Kind of tight really. I just made sure that they were cutting into virgin plastic on the nut. I believe that the possibility of the clips coming out is small because on mine the cover is up fairly tight and close to the clip. I don't think that the clips could fall out per say but do believe that they could "move" enough to allow the nut to possibly loosen up some.

After thinking it over more I'm not as worried about the torque i put on the nut because I remember what a neighbor of mine did to a front wheel on a 1/2 ton one time. This guy tightened the He!! out of both his front wheel bearings after doing a break job. He just happened to ask me about how tight they should be one day whan we were talking about something else. I told him that he should really go and adjust them properly or he could weld the bearing to the shaft. I walked over to give him a hand and was floored at how tight they were. It took a 1/2 breaker bar with an extension to get them loose!!! I asked him if the truck was driving funny before and he said that after driving awhile the truck would seem like it was slowing down noticiably when you lifted your foot off the throttle. Luckily there was no visible damage and we installed new bearings and races.

Our axels are unlike a front end because as you know the bearings are in gear oil and not packed with grease. I would guess that the higher torque placed on the nut is because the bearings would be cooler being bathed in gear oil. If this is not the case please no one tell me!!! I prefer to live in my own delusional world of making up scenerios so I won't worry so much!!!!!

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, PW injectors, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 230,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

[mark93]

You are supposed to back off the nut after torquing it with the hub rotating.
The manual's 1/3 turn leaves a little play so I backed off and retightened so that there was some preload about 20 ftlbf.

Everyone has different take on the Nylon Nut and its lock. Here's mine:

As long as the side of the nut that touches the bearing is smooth it is definitely OK to reuse it no matter if the lock happens to land in the same groove or not. That lock isn't going anywhere (it is supposed to cock on installation) and there is no way that nut will turn with that lock in place unless something siezes up. I had an '81 W250 (Dana 60 rear) and I shaved the nut threads clean off when I took the nut off without knowing what was going on-that little lock is hard. I do replace the locks because the little tang that butts up against the axle housing end usually breaks off if you try re-using it-no big deal in itself: just makes is a little harder to get out and makes it hard to see which is what led to the shaving incident above.

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'93 W350 Club Cab, Bright White, 5 sp. , 136K, Factory Options: LE package, 4. 10 Limited Slip, 7600 lb. rear springs, tachometer, front stabilizer bar. Mods: Banks stinger plus, Linex bedliner, 25,000 lb gooseneck ball, 10,000 lb receiver, Tekonsha brake controller, POWER WAGON injectors-WAY faster than stock!.

 

[CBratten]

Cooker, You were right!After this came up the second time around,I was becoming concern. Found another manual,read the article
on this matter,It said to back off the nut 120 degrees after torquing to 120-140 ft. lbs. Thanks

PS: on the model 80 series, the axle and hub
does't need to be removed for brake repair.

 

[B.G. Smith]

The manual that DC sent me for 1999 3500(after I sent them $100. 00) instructs to tighten nut to 120-140 ft pounds then back off 1/8 turn on both the Dana 70 and 80 rear wheel bearings. Strange that there are so many different directions. I assume the groove worn in the axle that you refer to is actually the housing tube where the wheel bearings mount? bg

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White 99 3500, QC, 3:55, auto. most options except leather, Line-X bed liner, fiberglass running boards Rancho 9000s, bug shield and window vents, black vented 5th wheel tailgate, 110 gal. aux. fuel tank.

 

[Cooker]

I still am amazed at the the different recommendations on this topic (from the Dodge service manual no less). I glad to hear there is a bit of backing off involved though after the 150lbs of torque. Looks like just for curiousity I'm gonna have to pull it back apart and check things out.

As far as the nuts and lock wedge go. I think you an reuse the nut, but if it makes you feel better just buy new. The lock wedge I would definitely replace every time, because they seem to be a little brittle after the first installation, both of mine broke upon reinstallation.

Ryan

[This message has been edited by Cooker (edited 02-02-2001). ]