Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Shutdown solenoid or relay??

[JGheen]

Definately getting the diode to prevent this from happening again.



So how can you tell if the starter sticks? Even with the super contacts I installed, what probably caused it to stick?

And driving the truck right now is probably not a good idea, even if I zip tie the shutdown lever up, right? I ask because this is my only vehicle and I need to get to work on Monday. :{



Joe

 

[Joe G.]

The starter probably didn't stick with the new contacts. What causes it to stick is worn contacts so the disk gets tipped and bind in the most worn contact. The solenoid damage may be old damage that was originally caused by sticking contacts and it's just getting worse with every attempt to start.

 

[Howard Durand]

It is possible that the contacts in the fuel shutdown relay may have stuck. That would do the same thing as stuck starter contacts except a diode won't protect against that. If the starter sticks and stays that way, the engine will continue turning even when the fuel is shut off. It will continue until the starter fails.

If you need to run the truck, remove the new relay and, with ignition on, see if the solenoid holds when you pull it up manually. The hold in coil may still be OK. Or unplug the solenoid completely and tie up the fuel lever. If the starter still works you should be OK to drive it.

 

[JGheen]

yeah, I think I am gonna just remove the solenoid and new relay and just tie up the lever. It should be fine until I get the parts on Tuesday, just gonna go through dozen or so tie wraps holding the lever up to get the pump some fuel.



Joe

 

[Got Smoke?]

Joe why not a choke cable conversion? $10-20 at the local auto parts house? PM TurboDiesel96 or I can get you his cell # PM me.



I know if my solenoid ever craps out that's the way I will go. I already have the posi-lok what's another pull lever :-laf

 

[JGheen]

I know, I thought of that as well but I really don't have the time to rig something like that up. It would be a very nice feature to prevent someone from ever stealing the truck also, but I just don't have the time to get that done with my busy work weeks and doing my fatherly duties for the family. Just gonna bite the bullet and get a new one sent down from Larry B's tomorrow.



Joe

 

[JGheen]

Adjusting the new solenoid.....

Hey, does anyone have any advice on adjusting the new solenoid? I read the service manual instructions for about 66mm of distance to the bracket when the solenoid is in the up position but it sure looks like a PITA to stick a ruler in there and get the thing just right. Any kind of advice is appreciated.

Also, can the solenoid pull too hard on the lever and possibly damage it? I see there is a set screw stop for the down position of the lever but nothing for the up position. I wouldn't think the solenoid is strong enough to damage it but when I pull up on the lever it does feel like it could be pulled up too hard and be damaged.



Joe

 

[GAmes]

You could count the threads on the old clevis and adjust the new one to match.

 

[Howard Durand]

You can get it pretty close by using a nylon tie. Mark it at the 66 mm length with a black marker and use it for a ruler. It will bend toward the pin so you can get a pretty good reading. I made sure not go get it any shorter than the 66 mm. I think they want the solenoid to be fully retracted at that measurement so there is no stress on the fueling mechanism.

 

[JGheen]

You can get it pretty close by using a nylon tie. Mark it at the 66 mm length with a black marker and use it for a ruler. It will bend toward the pin so you can get a pretty good reading. I made sure not go get it any shorter than the 66 mm. I think they want the solenoid to be fully retracted at that measurement so there is no stress on the fueling mechanism.

That's good to know, I guess around 67mm will get me in a good ballpark range.

By no stress on the fueling mechanism, do you mean when it is down(of position) or up(on position)?? I think this maybe goes back to my question of why is there no set screw stop for the up position but one for the down position??



Joe

 

[Howard Durand]

I am guessing that the specifications are there to make sure you get full fueling with the solenoid in it's maximum up position. Further travel may stress the valve in the pump. They really don't say.

The stop in the down position is probably there to prevent the plunger from falling out of the solenoid or, at least, extending too far which it could possibly do if the boot becomes damaged.

 

[JGheen]

That makes sense about the stop for the down position.

Got it all installed during my lunch hour just now, haven't started the truck yet, still trying to make sure if the adjustment measurement is there. It's a serious PITA trying to hold my measuring stick on it and looking through the fender well hole above the shock tower. It looks like it is close, but I think I am gonna remove it again and adjust the heim one turn out to make sure it is not below 66mm. I think it is @ about 65mm but it's so hard to tell.....



Also, installed that diode on the new starter, hope I didn't screw that up by accidentally turning the diode itself when tightening on the trigger wire. Tried to hold the boss of the diode with the 11mm wrench and tighten the trigger nut with the 10mm and ended up turning the diode boss a bit, hope I just didn't break the thing.



Joe

 

[JGheen]

According to the install instructions that came with the solenoid kit the solenoid adjustment has been factory set and should not be messed with. I guess I am going to leave it alone since the measurement I was taking seemed pretty close. Also, the kit cam with a new bracket for the solenoid to be installed on and a new pull lever to bolt onto the pump lever. They look very similar and I did not use either the new bracket nor the new pull lever(don't see why I should waste my time with installing the same bracket and pull lever ), I am sure there is no difference other than the pull lever had an extra hand on the opposite side of the lever. I'll post pics later tonite of the new pull lever that came with the kit for everyone's reference.



Joe

 

[JGheen]

Well, everything works but I had a couple set backs on the first start-up.

Went to start it and the solenoid didn't lift up, figures, I blew the 50amp fuse in the fuse box under the hood. Didn't have any spares so since my 40amp fuel heater fuse had never been used since I owned the truck, swapped it with that and it fired right up. Solenoid pulled up and everything. Oo. Went to the local truck supply store to see if they had any 50amp fuses I could get for spares and sure enough they didn't. Only stuff for the big rigs.

Went to go and start the truck again and the starter didn't crank! At this point I am thinking WTF is going on!!! Went under the truck and removed the diode on the trigger wire of the starter and wah-la! it fired right up! So much for the $10 diode from Larry B's, only lasted one start up, oh well, I am sure i can find another at a electrical specialty store. This time I think I will try and beef it up some with some silicone or epoxy to prevent it from breaking. New starter though, so I highly doubt it will be sticking anytime soon and cause any problems.



One question I have with all my new stuff installed, never felt the solenoid before after it has been energized a couple times, but how hot is it supposed to get?? It wasn't so hot I couldn't touch it or anything but it just didn't see normal by how warm it was. Can someone let me know if this is normal?? Just spent a lot of money and I don't want to burn up this new solenoid... .



Thanks, Joe

 

[Howard Durand]

Joe, all of the time the truck is running, the solenoid hold in coil is energized and is bound to get warm. If the pullup coil is energized for an extended time, it will burn up.

I wouldn't worry about it if you can hang on to it without real discomfort.



If you want to replace the diode, find an electronics store or catalog and get a 1N1190A diode. It is good for 40 amps and will cost less than $5

You probably twisted the one you had and broke the internal connection.

Even though you have new contacts, the diode is good insurance.



As to replacing the 50 amp fuse, if the 40 continues to work, you are better off using it instead. It may actually blow in time to prevent damage to the solenoid.

On my truck the solenoid is protected with a "fusible link" which was still in pretty good shape even after the solenoid was fried.

 

[JGheen]

Thanks Howard,



Yeah, I couldn't read the part number on the diode I have very well, so I will try and use your part number. DigiKey has lots of stuff to offer and your input helps even further.



I think I will continue to use the 40 amp fuse cuz it has been working fine on the few start-ups I have done since yesterday. Going to Kragen after work today to get a bunch of fuses to have on hand, all the ones in the box under the hood are getting pretty old.



When you mentioned the hold-up coil being energized for long periods of time, I would assume you mean if the ignition was on and I manually pulled it up and left it that way for a long time, right? Obviously I hope it wouldn't burn up on long 4-6 hour drives between fuel stops? It is definately not hot to the touch just a bit warm.



Joe

 

[Howard Durand]

Joe,



The fuel solenoid has two coils.



The "Pull Up" coil is the one that pulls the plunger up into the solenoid when you turn the ignition switch to the "start" position. It is designed to draw heavy current, which increases it's magnetic pull, because it not only has to pull up the plunger but also has to overcome the mechanical resistance of the fueling mechanism. That current is enough to burn up the coil if it is energized much longer than a half minute. This is acceptable because it is not likely the ignition switch will be held in the start position any longer than it takes for the engine to start.

You need to be aware of this though in case you are doing some testing without the starter connected.



The "Hold In" coil is energized as soon as you turn the key on. It does not draw enough current, or generate enough magnetic pull, to draw the plunger up into the coil but will hold it in place after the pull up coil has done it's job. This coil is rated for continuous duty and remains energized for as long as the ignition switch is on.



Hope this helps,



Howard

 

[coadman]

I have a question, which may be related. Won't help solve the original question in this thread, but maybe the answer has already been given? My 97 wont start

right away, unless I depress the acerlator pedal just a bit, then she fires right up. Is this the same problem?

thanks,

coadman

 

[Joe G.]

I have a question, which may be related. Won't help solve the original question in this thread, but maybe the answer has already been given? My 97 wont start

right away, unless I depress the acerlator pedal just a bit, then she fires right up. Is this the same problem?

thanks,

coadman

Your problem is that your idle is a little low.