Silencer Ring.....or is it?

[BigGunZ]

I've notice a lot of folks doing the SR removal mod, and having Bomb'd my new truck in short notice, couldn't help explore this. First off I'll concede up front that I may be wrong BUT... ... ... .

Regardless of what it's accepted name is, this "thingy" is NOT a silencer ring. I'm not doubting that it may or may not quiet down a noisey turbo but..... well..... let's look... ...

This first pic is what your turbo inlet sees from the factory plumbing... (for those of you that have seen the turbo inlet without the SR you should be on familiar turf)... .
#ad




<OThis next pic, is what your turbo inlet sees when the silencer ring is installed.....


#ad




I don't know about you guys but I know a velocity stack (AKA convergent duct) when I see one.



This next pic confirms my observation...



#ad




My point is that the folks that designed this turbo, did not put that thing there primarily to quiet the turbo. I'm posting this because today, I removed my SR. It resulted in absolutely nothing and I believe it's because the TAG in my smooth tube, has an identical VS incorporated into it's outlet. I guess what I'm saying, is that the widely held belief that "the silencer ring performs no function", is false. Considering the spool speed of the turbo, and the technology that goes into the blade design of something that spins soooooo fast, that cheesy metal cone does far more than decrease noise... if you pulled yours just for more turbo noise... you likely decreased your turbos' performance in the process.

 

[Nate]

I took mine out this afternoon. I'll find out when I take the truck for a spin.

 

[HOBrian]

My elbow does not have any plastic in it. Did that come from the factory like that

 

[BigGunZ]

My elbow does not have any plastic in it. Did that come from the factory like that

Yes. Factory item.

 

[BHolm]

I took mine out and don't notice any difference. The plastic vanes in that elbow are only the tip of the iceberg. If you look upstream of that in the big plastic vertical tube you will find a big swiss cheesed X running the full legnth. Are you trying to tell me that is for something other than noise control? It is also well known that the ring is a Dodge only part, not part of any Cummins application other than these trucks. That would suggest that Cummins is taking a performance hit on all other applications because this is not installed? I have a little trouble with that suggestion.

 

[2broke2smoke]

where is your proof that the silencer ring does more than others have said ?



your "is false" statement carries no more weight than the "no function" statements made by others without proof ...



1st gens did not come with silencer rings



and the industrial 24 valve that i saw a month ago did not have one in its hx-35 either ...



so unless you're a holset engineer i'd like to see some proof one way or the other ...



and yes i've told the "no function" people the same thing ...



HOBrian my wifes '03 does not have that white plastic airflow thing in the first elbow either ...

 

[barbwire]

BigGunZ, If I am not mistaken, I believe that the silencer ring that most of the fellows are removeing, is actually in the cast aluminum housing of the turbo itself. It requires screw drivers or other tools of sort to remove. Also, my 04 does not have the parts that are shown in your pic. I would almost think that what you have pictured is in fact Chryslers attempt at a TAG. But then again, what do I know? That ring that you are holding in the pic, I would think that part of it's function has something to do with keeping that plastic out of the turbo. I really do not know for sure of that which I am speaking, but I am going by what I have read here on the TDR, and the pics that have been posted in earlier threads. Maybe that what you have pictured is in fact the newest version of the sliencer ring. One of us is about to be hammered for our opinions, probably me! But, you should see all the lessons I have learned in my life with my foot in my mouth. :-laf

 

[JCleary]

My elbow does not have any plastic in it. Did that come from the factory like that

We didn't get that white diverter on our trucks. Only the 325/600's and up.



That said, if anyone has an intake tube with the vanes they want to part with, let me know

 

[p-Bar]

The metal ring in your hand is the silencer ring. My 04. 5 has the white plastic in the 90 degree bend, it's their to help the air flow. The cross section in the straight tube was to muffle the noise of the turbo. I have eliminated all this with my Volant air intake system. By the way most of the guys say when the silencer ring is removed they see a little faster spool up, maybe because they hear it now.....

 

[BigGunZ]

Are you trying to tell me that is for something other than noise control? It is also well known that the ring is a Dodge only part, not part of any Cummins application other than these trucks. That would suggest that Cummins is taking a performance hit on all other applications because this is not installed? I have a little trouble with that suggestion.

Yes, it's more than just for noise control. The fact that it's a Dodge part only highlights the fact that it's likely one of only a few (if not the only) applications where there is an elbow at the turbo inlet.

 

[DBond]

The metal ring in your hand is the silencer ring. My 04. 5 has the white plastic in the 90 degree bend, it's their to help the air flow. The cross section in the straight tube was to muffle the noise of the turbo. I have eliminated all this with my Volant air intake system. By the way most of the guys say when the silencer ring is removed they see a little faster spool up, maybe because they hear it now.....

I could use some clairification on the names for these intake parts. Is this correct?



"Silencer ring" = metal funnel in duct by turbo? (but might have other purposes)

Is there another metal cone shaped ring on the turbo?

White plastic vanes in elbow help airflow around the corner

The fat, straight section of intake has a "muffler" to reduce turbo whistle?

So removing either the "muffler" or the silencer ring will increase turbo whistle, and might improve spoolup?

 

[BigGunZ]

I could use some clairification on the names for these intake parts. Is this correct?

Silencer ring = metal funnel in duct by turbo?
Is there another metal cone shaped ring on the turbo?
White plastic vanes in elbow help airflow around the corner
The fat, straight section of intake has a "muffler" to reduce turbo whistle?
So removing either the "muffler" or the silencer ring will increase turbo whistle, and might improve spoolup?

You're pretty much correct although I believe that removing the "silencer ring" disrupts airflow at the compressor inlet just as removing the white vanes would do without using some sort of replacement.

 

[Cochran]

Noise aside whats better for airflow? the factory tube with all of the vanes inside it or a large smooth aftermarket tube.

 

[BigGunZ]

Noise aside whats better for airflow? the factory tube with all of the vanes inside it or a large smooth aftermarket tube.

Airflow is a different animal when you have a turbo. A turbo is going to take the air it needs and I think the factory plumbing can supply sufficient amounts of it. The gains in intake modding come in the form of performance of the turbocharger itself. Reducing turbulence at the compressor inlet allows the turbo to react faster and more accurately. The white vanes in the lower elbow are solely there for that reason... to ensure the compressor wheel is evenly loaded. As I have stated earlier, I believe the ring is there for the same purpose. As an added bonus... laminar non-turbulent air is also quieter.

 

[BigGunZ]

Forgot your question... . Any smooth tube is better than factory but I'm also a believer in flow straighteners such as the TAG when running without the plastic vanes. Lots of folks don't believe in those things. In other words, I think smooth tubes are best, but if you don't straighten the air/eliminate the turbulence created from the air passing the lower elbow... you're not getting the absolute best performance out of the compressor.

 

[steved]

My elbow does not have any plastic in it. Did that come from the factory like that

I found the plastic directional vanes in mine were half cocked on the elbow, which had in turned half plugged the hose...



I found no difference in removing the silencer ring... in my 99 auto, it seemed to make it spool slightly quicker/easier... but that was about it.



Needless to say, the only thing left there is the "muffler" silencer since I didn't feel it restricted the airflow any... the vanes were pulled since they would not stay in the tube correctly... the silencer ring was pulled, well, because I like the sound of the turbo...



steved

 

[BigGunZ]

I found the plastic directional vanes in mine were half cocked on the elbow, which had in turned half plugged the hose...

I found no difference in removing the silencer ring... in my 99 auto, it seemed to make it spool slightly quicker/easier... but that was about it.

Needless to say, the only thing left there is the "muffler" silencer since I didn't feel it restricted the airflow any... the vanes were pulled since they would not stay in the tube correctly... the silencer ring was pulled, well, because I like the sound of the turbo...

steved

Looking at mine, the white inlet guide vanes can only go in one way... there's a tab on the elbow that aligns them. The silencer vanes (black ones) on mine were not aligned with the guide vanes so I turned it to a more proper looking setup (when I still had it).

My smooth tube allows me to hear the turbo quite well and like you, think that sound is sweet music. About 10 minutes ago, I reinstalled my "silencer ring" since it gave me no additional turbo noise, likely because the TAG has the same velocity cone as the factory ring... although it's a slightly different angle. I think the only way I'll get more turbo whistle is to go to an open element filter, which I'm not yet convinced will provide any benefit over the PG7 drop in. I did get more turbo noise by pulling the cat though.

 

[BHolm]

Yes, it's more than just for noise control. The fact that it's a Dodge part only highlights the fact that it's likely one of only a few (if not the only) applications where there is an elbow at the turbo inlet.

Who says, besides you, that it is for more than noise control? I am perfectly happy to discuss this but, you seem to have a concrete answer we are all supposed to accept based on your "experience". Not saying you don't have some that qualifies you but, also consider you are not preaching to a bunch of dolts.



My problem with your theory has to do with a couple different points. First, the plastic vanes were not present in the pre "600" trucks. Were the earlier trucks just not so highly developed? Or is it a noise reduction technique? Having owned two '03s an '05 and now an '06 I can say they have become progressively more quiet.



Second, I don't accept that the Dodge application is so rare having an elbow at the inlet. In fact I would bet it is fairly common with the high air intakes be it on a farm tractor, forklift or even a medium duty truck.



If you want people to accept your theory, why not show some evidence to support it rather than get personal and insist that you are correct? You might be correct, who knows? You might be wrong, are you willing to accept that? If not, you are correct, this thread becomes pointless :-{}

 

[BigGunZ]

Who says, besides you, that it is for more than noise control?

Anyone that has ever designed, built, repaired, or maintained a jet engine, or more accurately, a turbo jet engine but lets forget that for a second. I started this thread to see if anyone was willing to think "outside the Diesel". Turbos have been around long before anyone ever bolted them to a diesel engine and I completely understand that everyone doesn't share my views... BUT... there's no need to be adversarial in your responses. I'm not the enemy. I'm not trying to make anyone look bad. I'm not trying to make anyone look stupid and I'm surely not asking anyone to accept my views without question. But if you'd like to discuss this, there are far more effective ways to start a sentence or reply don't you think? That said I'll try to make my motives more clear...

From the time I was 17, I was working on jets. Turbo Jets to be specific. I not only fixed them but went on to teach jet theory. Being relatively new to CTD's I quickly realized, largely through the expertise of folks on this site, that turbos and jet engines are not only similar, but rooted in the same science. I also believe some of the things that are widely "accepted" as being true in "diesel world", simply doesn't fit with turbo compressor theory in "aerospace world" where it originated. Not because anyone is dumb. Not because anyone is stupid. But because turbo theory, when passed along to the automotive industry was not necessarily "complete" information. Much of the technology we get comes from aerospace. It eventually trickles down to the masses... . anyone know where velcro originally came from????

My problem with your theory has to do with a couple different points. First, the plastic vanes were not present in the pre "600" trucks. Were the earlier trucks just not so highly developed? Or is it a noise reduction technique? Having owned two '03s an '05 and now an '06 I can say they have become progressively more quiet.

Automatic transmissions and dual zone climate control weren't present at one point too, but that's no reason to credit noise reduction as a factor now is it?

Second, I don't accept that the Dodge application is so rare having an elbow at the inlet. In fact I would bet it is fairly common with the high air intakes be it on a farm tractor, forklift or even a medium duty truck. If you want people to accept your theory, why not show some evidence to support it rather than get personal and insist that you are correct? You might be correct, who knows? You might be wrong, are you willing to accept that? If not, you are correct, this thread becomes pointless

I'd agree that maybe it's not (the elbow use theory), but I can speculate with confidence that it's not such a stretch to believe that the engineers that designed the turbo didn't realize or think, that the strategic use of convergent/divergent ducts were necessary at the compressor inlet until now.

I can show you thousands of pictures of examples of Bernoulli's principal in action, on every single turbojet compressor inlet in existence, and post the technical documentation to back up it's use... BUT... . do I really need to? Is that what we're about here? Your credibility is only as great as your post count?

Hell, I fail to see where I got personal with anyone until someone jumped down my throat. If that's the game, I can play it quite well.

 

[DBond]

... I removed my SR. It resulted in absolutely nothing and I believe it's because the TAG in my smooth tube, has an identical VS incorporated into it's outlet... [/color]

So you went from stock, to a smooth tube with TAG, (without the white vanes), and played with this setup with and without the "silencer ring" in place?

Assuming that is correct, did you notice differences, such as spoolup, from the factory to aftermarket setup?

Did you run the factory setup without the SR?

Try the TAG with the factory tubes?