Single Disc VS Triple Disc RACE EXPERIENCE++++

[biggy238]

I rode in an ATS'd truck last night and it's time I start finalizing my transmission plans.







I want to know IS THERE ANY MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE to having either a single or triple disc converter??



NO BRANDS INVOLVED PLEASE. This doesn't mean you can't talk about your converter and what it is, just no preferrential comparison between brands.



The Discs are all i'm interested in now. RACE EXPERIENCE WANTED.

I enjoy light to light racing too much not to weigh it in as a factor.



Manufacturers and dealers welcome, however, I do just want a comparison between your own offerings in converters.



Sound fair enough?? I hope this turns out to be a good one...

 

[Jetpilot]

Well this should be an interesting thread..... But here is my thoughts.



I run a DTT single disc in my current truck with over 800 HP and have not had any problems with the convertor or transmission. In theory the triple disc should have better holding but in all my trucks I have not ever slipped a single disc TC. I drag raced with a single over and over again plus drove it all over the country with no problems. Personally I believe that who manufactors the TC and what components are used make the difference not the number of disc's. The triple disc and billett cover TC's weigh more so again in theory this would slow you down slightly... . In any event I think what TC and transmission you run makes a bigger difference than the number of clutches.



Doug

 

[biggy238]

I agree that the manufacturer is slighlty more relevant but... as you know. . that never goes well on here.



I would have never considered the affect of having more mass involved ie the clutch pack, trying to engage.



So, how about from a durability standpoint? You have numerous launches on a single. Is there any evidence anyone has to show that 3 discs would outlast a single? In my case, I intend this to be the only TC I install until I can afford another vehicle. And, I want it to withstand the abuses I subject it to the entire time. (500hp max)



I'm already leaning toward a single, but the triples have that COOL factor... :-laf

 

[DHayden]

The way it was explained to me is that more pressure could be applied to the single for more holding power. With the triple discs, 2 of the discs are allowed to slip and will gunk up the converter sooner causing more wear and have to replace it sooner. I do not have personal experience but it made sense to me.

 

[biggy238]

AAAHHHH this is something that occured to me when I first saw the triples. There's no way to securely clamp more than one disc without huge line pressure. But the wear traits causing problems I didn't think of. . Again... A good point.



Triple Bashing thread anyone??



More more I want more... .

 

[Cooker]

In theory the triple has more holding force with less pressure. In reality this is a moot point as the entire transmission needs the increased pressures not just the TC so it seems no matter what TC you are running (single/triple) if the transmission was setup properly the line pressures will be similar.

 

[jwilliams3]

The fastest trucks in the country are running triple's.

Along with the best Auto pulling trucks out there.

 

[Diesel Freak]

well, us manual guys know the advantage to a dual disc and tripple disc over a single disc clutch!!

 

[biggy238]

Yeah... If I had a manual, my left leg would be looking beastly already because i'd be well down the HP road with a heavy clutch. Damned auto...



Well that sets the mood at indifferent. I would have never asked this, but I read the ATS website and they are pushing that triple disc HARD... . Like I said. . I kinda like the idea... Maybe I should just go with what I can afford to do. .

 

[F8LDOSE]

DOesn't someone make a five disk convertor? Maybe i was thinking of a five disk catalytic convertor, uh-uh.

 

[Cooker]

but I read the ATS website and they are pushing that triple disc HARD... .

That's not a surprise

 

[Bandit1]

another point about the TC's with the heavy billet covers that companys rave about, seems to me that their trans are the ones breaking the stock flexplate, more rotating mass puts more pressure on the flexplate and snap. the auto trans is complicated enough why make it more complex than it already is or has to be. if simple works (single disk, ie Jetpilot's 2 trucks) then why try to complicate things with trying to balance 3 disks in the TC and keep the from dragging and wearing. i am sorry but i dont care what anyone says inside that triple tc those disks have to rub against one another and wear some. josh

 

[AK RAM]

Before I built mine, I rode in many trucks with both singles and triples and the one common theme that kept jumping out at me was how much firmer the shifts were on the transmissions that were running singles. They were firm to the point of being harsh and I didn't like it. Great for race day, but the other 90 percent of the time, just commuting in traffic, it was too harsh for comfort. Gave you the head bob at each shift. The only way to get lighter shifts was to relax the pressure. Can't do that with a single as that pressure is needed. That left me with one option. Triple disk with a towing valve body running just ever so slightly higher pressures than stock. The rest of the transmission is built with a hodgepodge of parts. It is a very smooth unit, great for Sunday drives, and kicks butt at the strip. It turned out to be a great build. Best of both worlds you could say.

 

[Cooker]

AK,

Do you know what pressures your VB is setup to run? I was pretty certain that all MFG's are setting up their transmission to run similar pressures?



My guess is the firmer shifts you were feeling was because the single TC was "tighter" than the triple.



I'm not trying to start a good/bad arguement, just trying to see if pressures are similar.

 

[AK RAM]

I don't know about all that, but Bill K told me that dropping the pressures was the only way to ease the shifts, and that he didn't recommend doing that. ATS offered a performance valve body, which I reluctantly tried, and a milder towing valve body that sounded like it would fit what I was after a little better. I need to look at my notes to see what the pressures were. The performance valve body would almost give you whiplash at each shift. I didn't care for that at all. The towing valve body is just right for me.

 

[WCPoe]

VB pressures

Cooker and AKRam,



I have just recently installed an ATS trans with the billet input shaft, billet flex plate, the TripleLok converter and the ATS Commander. I had to take the idle and full stall pressures which were 75 and 120 psi respectively. (I believe the stock idle pressure should be around 60psi. but I'm not sure as I didn't check mine stock. ) These were taken from the middle plug on the passenger side. So far I really love this trans, especially with the Commander controlling the lockups. It’s firm when shifting in lockup but you hardly notice it if you set the lockup point high enough or turn off the Commander and let the ECM control the lockup. I must say the stock converter loses a lot of power in its fluid coupling.

 

[rrausch]

I bought my Stage IV about 3. 5 years ago--I think I was the second TDR guy to get the ATS trans. Earthroamer was the first guy here to go with ATS I think. Anyway I used to love street racing because I could shift locked--that was BEFORE diesel prices went so high! I drive like grandpa now! Ha! But true. But being able to shift locked is fun!



I know the best-known single clutch performance trans USED to use some sort of cheater to unlock the single-disk TC under extreme accelleration--the owner of that company saying at the time (3 years ago) that his clutch could not hold the excessive torque of the mighty Cummins, but that his stator was so aggressive that it didn't need to. Don't know if that is still the case, but that's what was said 3 years ago.

 

[rrausch]

Here is a link to the post and here is what was said then:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29598&perpage=15&pagenumber=9



Posted by Bill Kondolay:



"Interesting questions Mark,



My solution was actually quite simple. Tell the truth.



No, I cannot handle the power of the Dodge Cummins Diesel in lock up mode and for me to claim otherwise would be a lie.



If other companies choose they can do this, that is their right, it is not our policy to make these type of false claims. I am not going to treat my customers like idiots and expect them to believe that the lockup clutch is as strong at 1000rpms as it is at 3000rpms.



If you want to take it and break down your 6 speed cannot handle the power of the cummins either.



Next time you hook on to your trailer, try starting out in 6th gear and see how long your clutch lasts.



We use the same approach when we talk to our automatic customers, we try to get them to use the proper gear and not to use lockup for excelleration.



If you talk to any of our customers they will tell you that the value of lockup is over rated , you can excellerate a vehicle quicker by using the right gear, and we use lock up as 5th gear rather than lock it up right of the bat. "





The post goes on some more, addressing other issues. Maybe someone who has a recent DTT trans will chime in and say whether or not the present version of Bill's trans locks up under extreme accelleration. I'm not knocking their trans. Bill was the first guy to figure out how to harness the massive torque of a bombed Cummins and he deserves his kudos. The DTT trans is a great trans. I'm not knocking it. But there are other choices out there now, that weren't there in the early days.

 

[Bandit1]

my stock line pressure was 52 psi i believe, it is a lot higher now. i love the firm shifts, i actually wish it was firmer than it is now. low pressure caused by the vb isnt really the problem. it is the leakage throughout the trans from cheap parts (stock) that cause the trans to slip. it normally starts not at the TC, mathmatically the tc is the strongest clutch (from what i read) and is normally caused to slip do to contamination throughout the rest of the trans which clogs fluid passages and restricts fluid flow and that drops pressure and causes the trans to slip and fail. my . 02, take it for what it is worth (. 02). josh

 

[Timbeaux38]

The fastest trucks in the country are running triple's.

Along with the best Auto pulling trucks out there.

I know of 4 VERY fast trucks running 5 discs... . 3 of them are from GA