Smarty 3rd Gen

[Msilbernagel]

Did I hear someone say more rpm? Where do I send the blank check? Yeah; we need it (almost) that bad!.....

Has anyone looked into adding a second CP3? Say, CP3#1 and CP3#2 alternate cylinders in the firing order... doubling the recovery time for pressure between actual injection events, and effectively doubling the throughput available by running in parallel.



I haven't heard anyone say that the CP3 cannot fire fast enough... only that you can't get enough fuel through them at high RPM.



Perhaps there's someone out there creative enough with the electronics.



Mark

 

[Big MAK]

Right now we can pump enough fuel (thanks to Floor-It and Industrial Injection) but the computer -eliminates- the signals above 3200/3400 RPM (a programmed "rev limiter"). The current comp boxes enhance the signal and with no signal = no fuel. We're all holding our breath waiting for someone to put out a box that sends an entire new signal vs. enhances the stock signal. It's a tough problem.

 

[mconstable]

Haven't heard heard much from Marco lately...

Oooh, I know... he's been pulling all-nighters boxing up all of the units to ship!

Right!?

 

[Tomeygun]

Haven't heard heard much from Marco lately...

Oooh, I know... he's been pulling all-nighters boxing up all of the units to ship!

Right!?

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...



:-laf

 

[Matt400]

I wonder what happens when you swing the mass of a CTD piston and rod that fast, seems like it might not want to change direction at BDC and keep on going through the pan

 

[BigDan]

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...

All I want for Christmas is a 4500rpm common rail...



:-laf

X2... ... . Heck I dont care if I have to wait till christmas, just give us more rpm!!!!!

 

[MCummings]

I wonder what happens when you swing the mass of a CTD piston and rod that fast, seems like it might not want to change direction at BDC and keep on going through the pan

Not Really. At 4k you are fine. 12V'ers have been doing it for years. At 4,500 though you are running risky business.



Merrick

 

[MCummings]

Has anyone looked into adding a second CP3? Say, CP3#1 and CP3#2 alternate cylinders in the firing order... doubling the recovery time for pressure between actual injection events, and effectively doubling the throughput available by running in parallel.



I haven't heard anyone say that the CP3 cannot fire fast enough... only that you can't get enough fuel through them at high RPM.



Perhaps there's someone out there creative enough with the electronics.



Mark

The CP3 pump is only a 3 cylinder high pressure pump, not an injection pump.



The CP3 keeps the rail pressurized, and the ECM tells the injectors when to fire. Stacking CP3's would help the volume, but that issue has allready been fixed with Floor It's, and Industrial Injections's Stg 1 and Stg2 pumps.



Stacking the pumps could cause failures like the 7. 3L Fords are seeing when the shaft connecting the two high pressure oil pumps breaks...



Merrick

 

[WUnderwood]

Slightly off topic, but what would be ideal for stacking with the Smarty--TST or one of the new PPE/BullyDog 'torque management' boxes?



thanks in advance



can't wait for the Smarty!

 

[Buddy's Ram]

Slightly off topic, but what would be ideal for stacking with the Smarty--TST or one of the new PPE/BullyDog 'torque management' boxes?

thanks in advance

can't wait for the Smarty!

Yeah; there is a bunch of us waitin' on the Smarty; I am sure it will be worth the wait though. I bet Marco will show us the "right" way to do torque
management. Not just something that rips through trannies.

Bob; do you need any Beta testers on the East coast?

 

[CBrabec]

Slightly off topic, but what would be ideal for stacking with the Smarty--TST or one of the new PPE/BullyDog 'torque management' boxes?



thanks in advance



can't wait for the Smarty!

I hope with the TST, that way I can see the difference between the EZ and the SMARTY!!! Please hurry Marco Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[Marco]

I bet Marco will show us the "right" way to do torque

:-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf



Marco

 

[Bob Wagner]

this could put and new meaning too _________________________ :-laf

 

[CRiggan]

I wonder how strong the truck would be with tst on 4/4 and smarty on?



that is with injectors , sps 62 and a modded cp3?



FUN ?

 

[BigDan]

I wonder how strong the truck would be with tst on 4/4 and smarty on?



that is with injectors , sps 62 and a modded cp3?



FUN ?

Only time will tell. We've all been asking ourselfs these questions. Im hoping our trucks will be as quick as 12 or 24 valve's, givin the added weight.

 

[RKerner]

Not Really. At 4k you are fine. 12V'ers have been doing it for years. At 4,500 though you are running risky business.



Merrick

There should be some margin for safety but that's still over a 33% increase in rpm. That means shaking forces in the engine going up by velocity squared which means some numbers that would probably make a few Cummins engineers say "... we didn't design it for that. "



Just as important as hard parts, what about the injectors and mapping at those engine speeds? On Ficht DI two strokes, the injectors coudn't physically keep up with fuel flow requirements due to injector moving part mass and too little time to energize. Has anybody simulated this on an injector to see if it goes haywire at the speeds you guys are wanting? It's fairly easy to make a mechanical pump and injectors speed up but DI injectors are a different story?

 

[WCPoe]

Ficht injector limitation

RKerner - I believe the limitation of the Ficht injection process is that the injector piston drove the fuel into the cylinder, whereas our common rails are already pressurized and our injector acts more like a switch. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. My boat mechanic was trying to explain the differences of the Ficht system versus the Mercury Optimax DFI system and basically he was way over my head, so I may not know of what I speak.

 

[Devan Manis]

There should be some margin for safety but that's still over a 33% increase in rpm. That means shaking forces in the engine going up by velocity squared which means some numbers that would probably make a few Cummins engineers say "... we didn't design it for that. "



Just as important as hard parts, what about the injectors and mapping at those engine speeds? On Ficht DI two strokes, the injectors coudn't physically keep up with fuel flow requirements due to injector moving part mass and too little time to energize. Has anybody simulated this on an injector to see if it goes haywire at the speeds you guys are wanting? It's fairly easy to make a mechanical pump and injectors speed up but DI injectors are a different story?

I think more than a few things we do with our trucks would make cummins engineers scratch their heads and say, ... " we didn't design it for that. " duramax injectors are pizeo correct? i don't know the difference between theirs and ours, but their injectors work fine at 4500rpm. why not ours?

 

[dmurdock]

I think more than a few things we do with our trucks would make cummins engineers scratch their heads and say, ... " we didn't design it for that. " duramax injectors are pizeo correct? i don't know the difference between theirs and ours, but their injectors work fine at 4500rpm. why not ours?

Do theirs fire 3 times per stroke? I'm thinking that is one of the main causes of the limit (you have to fit 3 injection events per stroke, not 1). In my simple thinking, if we could just have one injection event then the rev limit would be almost tripled. I know the other 2 events aren't near as long as the main one, but the injector still has to open/close 3 times per stroke (as far as I understand it).

 

[BigDan]

There should be some margin for safety but that's still over a 33% increase in rpm. That means shaking forces in the engine going up by velocity squared which means some numbers that would probably make a few Cummins engineers say "... we didn't design it for that. "



Just as important as hard parts, what about the injectors and mapping at those engine speeds? On Ficht DI two strokes, the injectors coudn't physically keep up with fuel flow requirements due to injector moving part mass and too little time to energize. Has anybody simulated this on an injector to see if it goes haywire at the speeds you guys are wanting? It's fairly easy to make a mechanical pump and injectors speed up but DI injectors are a different story?

Thats probably is true and the only peple who ever will go that high are probably pullers and racers and only for a few seconds at a time. Yes its bad but 2 seconds here and there probably wont hurt that much. Heck ive pegged my pyro lots of times at 1,700' + lots of times but it was only for a couple of seconds and not much load.



many of us just want the freedom of 4500 rpm if we ever need it.



Most of us will keep it at 4000 which seems to be just fine for the 12V guys.