Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Smarty and auto conversation thread.

[Fishin Guide]

Hello all.



I am having some niggling issues with the Smarty in my auto truck and thought I would see if anyone else has had similar issues.



First off, I have a built auto, billet shafts, blah, blah, 3. 54 gears, Mach 6+, twins, cam, 285 tire.



With my truck, I cannot achieve lockup unloaded under about 48-50mph on flat ground with mild throttle. If I add some weight or pull my light boat trailer, it'll lockup at around 40-42. If I am ascending a grade, it'll lock slightly sooner.



Obviously, the more throttle position I give it, the sooner it locks up. But for day to day, this comes in very late.



I have tried advancing my APPS to raise the voltage as high as possible. This helps the shift come in sooner, but only got me to the details above. I cannot advance the APPS any further as the computer doesn't like that and starts creating issues of it's own.



My guess is this is all an amplified condition shared by all auto trucks with the Smarty. When installed on my dad's bone stock truck, the lockup point was moved up as well, but not nearly as far as mine. With the added fueling I have through injectors and a tighter auto, its no surprise.



I have been in contact with Bob Wagner on this subject in an effort to see if there were any possible changes that could be made to the auto program for guys running bigger sticks. We have been asked to be patient and I have tried to be, but as many of you know, no new updates have come for the second gens. And after a few PMs on another board, it appears there may not be.



So, I am curious how many guys have had similar experiences and what setup you are running. Hopefully, some common conditions will show up and maybe we can devise our own fix. I don't want to lose the functionality of the Smarty. But the late lockup and the neck breaking surge on any of the "Catcher" levels makes use of any level over 3 out of the question.



I am not trying to turn this into a bash session. I am looking for how many folks this has effected to determine if we can justify bugging Marco directly with this. Also, it'll give everyone some idea of how many trucks are truely effected. And yes, all you guys with handshackers have no issues. Hoo-Ray! :-laf



Thanks guys!



Dave

 

[FTwardoch]

Dave,



As you know, I'm having issues also. Funny tho, I 'only' have Mach 1. 0's and a Smarty with a built auto that does not like Smarty. Stock HY turbo



My symptoms are as follows -



- 'stacked shifts' - truck under light throttle will go from 3rd to OD/Lockup at once, causing the truck to fall on its face.

- 'dead spot' - when I had the Edge EZ, it would pull in a linear fashion when the truck 'lugged' (described as 1200 rpm light throttle application pulling a slight grade) - with Smarty it feel weak till it hits 1500ish rpm, then it pulls strong

- 'shift hunting' - under light throttle (around town) it will bounce around between 3rd and OD (or lockup, can't tell) at around 40 mph. I figure this might be solvable with a DTT filter (so I hear) but still, it was NOT there with the EZ.

- 'cruise control' - on #9 it is not very smooth... ... ... ... . accelerates, then slows down, accelerates again, etc. Watching the boost gauge is kind of funny during these times... ... ... ... builds, drops off, builds, drops off.



I've reset APPS (the right way with voltage checks) as well as the 'other way' (unhooking batteries), wrapped the alternator wire in aluminum foil, had my transmission guy play with the kickdown cable as well as pressures in the transmission (turned them up) to no real avail.



So it's interesting that a relatively mild truck such as mine has this as well as a monster like yours.



I may be putting a Drag Comp on it, returning it to stock to see what it does... ... ... .

 

[Fishin Guide]

I don't have the stacked shifts any longer, but it required a much tighter setting on the cable and the addition of the strongest spring we could put in the trans. It could shift smoother, but needs throttle input on the cable to do so. Again, the Smarty sensitivity on the bottom hampers the autos performance.



The dead spot I have as well. It feels like I just ran out of fuel on the 3-4 shift when at a steady throttle position. I usually turn on the TST to level 2 or 3 to drive through it. Not a fix, just my work around.



Dave

 

[GMcLeod]

I have the same dead spot when my truck shifts from 3rd to 4th. I thought it was my wast gate for some time since I was seeing a drop of 10lbs boost when the 3rd-4th shift would take place. When running stock the truck runs great, never missing a beat through the shift points; including lockup. I'm sure Marco will find a fix; I hope it's soon... I'll run in the stock setting until Marco fixes this problem since I'm running too many upgrades on this truck to have it operate so poorly. Please fix it Marco... .

 

[BJMarshall]

Dave,
We may have touched on this before. I know it has been discussed just can't remember if I was in on it. Marco sent me a bunch of files to test and it all but eliminated the surge on my 01. The software on the site now is no newer, but I thought the fix for the surge was in there. I don't know if it would help on yours since it is somewhat modified.
As far as the transmission goes, I have studied on this a great deal and finally got the one in my 01 to do like I wanted it. I only run my smarty on 3 or 5. The higher numbers don't make any more power in the 2nd gens it just comes on earlier. I also think earlier here means earlier in the throttle travel not necessarily earlier in the rpm range. As you well know, this wreaks havoc on the automatics since they are tied to throttle position for so many things.
By tightening the cable nearly all the way and adding some line pressure, I got mine to perform decent. Setting the smarty back to stock required all of this to be undone or I got late harsh shifts.
Changing the shift points in the PCM would help, but not completely since line rise is controlled by the cable. The shift points could be raised, but the line pressure wouldn't be exactly right for the amount of power being produced.

 

[pangelechio]

I have the same 3-4 hard shift and dead spot. But after a lot of help from Jeremy, we are going to try something new to fix this. My CaTcher is running level 9 smarty on it, Bosch 300 sticks, mildly built auto, AFE intake, PDR HX35 just so you have an idea of how I am set up. It will be a week or two before we have results so stand by.



Philip

 

[Fishin Guide]

I know some of this has been covered before. I think it's helpful if the auto guys share thier experiences and setups though.



Maybe there will be no changes to the software, but I am sure hoping for one!



One think I think that would greatly help anyone with an aftermarket auto and or more power is a less sensitivity on the bottom with all the Samrty programs when used with the auto. This would allow for greater throttle extension on the bottom to get the truck moving at a reasonable rate. It would also allow for the PCM to get a lockup signal sooner and higher line pressures due to the added pedal travel.



Then we just need a fix for the 3-4 shift.



Seems simple to me, but I no programmer!



Dave

 

[BJMarshall]

I agree. I really think the fix itself would be simple, but getting it to please everyone might be a different story.

Now if there was a little bit of user tuning involved, I'm all for it. It would be nice if we could select from several options, or put in a percent increase or decrease.

 

[RPA]

I am having some of the same issues as listed above with my full built trans and the smarty. But, I cannot remember the problems exactly since it has been last summer since it was in my truck. Now it just serves as an expensive scan tool. I would greatly appreciate some changes because as it stands right now it will never go back in my truck. I don't want this to sound like I am bashing marco or anyone else becasue I do not agree with doing that on the internet but it is obvious that some changes would benefit the autos.

 

[Fishin Guide]

RPA,



I am hearing that same statement more and more. "Just an expensive scan tool".



To date, not one response has come from the Smarty camp to alert any of us of any possible updates. I have a fwe be patient messages stored somewhere though. :-laf



Where's Marco? Did he take the money and run?



Taken from the Mads website.



"MADS Electronics has three main concerns :



1) Product quality.

2) Customer satisfaction.

3) Customer Service. "



We'll have to see if they can live up to any of the above...



Dave

 

[Bob Wagner]

come on dave. this is a whole new low :{

 

[SKargo]

Would a trans controller solve your problems?

 

[Fishin Guide]

Would a trans controller solve your problems?

I don't believe so. I cannot get a lockup signal because of the lack of throttle position.



With that said, I am open to any idea that would constitute a "fix". Even at my own expense. What do you have in mind?



Dave

 

[SKargo]

I don't believe so. I cannot get a lockup signal because of the lack of throttle position.



With that said, I am open to any idea that would constitute a "fix". Even at my own expense. What do you have in mind?



Dave

I was just throwing that out there. I'm no expert, that's for sure. I did take note when a couple here said the shift and lockup happened simultaneously, if I set my controller "wrong" I can get that too.

 

[Fishin Guide]

come on dave. this is a whole new low :{

I probably should not even respond to this. But... .



What part of this is a whole new low??



There is an obvious issue here. I and many others have tried to make our trucks work around the Smarty electronics.



The good is that the program is wonderfully stable. And the anti-theft software works great! In a stick shift truck, you won't have a single complaint.



The bad is that there are some issues. They are above and from the number of PMs of I have recieved, I now believe I am not the minority any longer. I was told along with others to be patient, fixes were coming.



I will say again what I have said all along. Are there fixes or changes coming? If so, when? Are changes even possible? If not, that's fine too. Maybe folks just need to be aware and that's that.



Maybe those are better questions for Marco. As we have been patient, I am just trying to get a fix that holds onto that stable software AND drives better.



Not trying to pick a fight with you Bob. I know you don't make it, you just sell it. I can relate to that. I am just trying compile some good data and info and try to get it passed onto Marco. Hopefully a small change will net all of us a better product. Hell, I would even be willing to pay for it!



Dave

 

[Fishin Guide]

I was just throwing that out there. I'm no expert, that's for sure. I did take note when a couple here said the shift and lockup happened simultaneously, if I set my controller "wrong" I can get that too.

Gotcha. I currently do not have any trans controller. Just the factory electronics running an aftermarket trans.



We have tried making some changes to the trans settings as well. But it all comes back to needing so much pedal to get the lockup signal. That's fine for getting on the freeway, but many of the streets here are 45MPH and I cannot get lockup unless I use a lockup switch. Well, if it does lock at say 48-50 under acceleration, when I back down to the speed limit, it unlocks. Again, throttle position.



Dave

 

[SKargo]

I am not sure where the lockup signal comes from, and if a controller delivers the signal or not.

 

[Fishin Guide]

The lockup signal is tied the PCM and the APPS. There is a voltage threshold that "trips" lockup. DTTs Smart Controller cannot generate this signal, but does hold it. For example, the stock computer locks the trans and the controller keeps it locked until you hit a preset speed as in slowing with an e-brake.



Dave

 

[Fishin Guide]

I heard a great suggestion today in regards to the Smarty. There needs to be a "in town" program.



This would require about 35% throttle before the Smarty settings would take hold. It would allow for more pedal to prevent hunting, delayed lockup and twitchyness with a tight convertor.



Sounds easy to me. But I ain't a programmer!



Dave

 

[AKAMAC]

Dave, There was a schematic that showed how to bypass the signal around the ECM to the PCM on one of the transmission sites. I can't find it now but I think there may be a way to use this for an upgrade.

If the signal was intercepted from the APPS and run thru a voltage converter, AGM, Phenoix or Weidmuiller, say 0-5 vdc to 0-10 vdc. This signal would then give a greater APPS voltage to the PCM for shift ranges. The Smarty would see the same signal but the PCM would see a different value. The converters are only a c-note or so. If you like I could get the part #s and post them for you. Mike