Smarty Jr torque and timing settings

[AH64ID]

I have talked to some of the most respected cam guys in the Cummins aftermarket world, their input along with identical part numbers is really hard to argue.

 

[LRutigliano]

IIRC the Jr TM4 is the same as TM3 on the Sr. TM2 on the Jr is not an option on the Revo Sr, from what I understand from back in the initial release days.

I don't understand what you are stating... TIMING on Jr and Sr are the same...

1= stock, 2= standard, 3= mild (less than 2), 4= advanced (more than 2)

I set my S06 (sr) to SW3 (tq3, tm3, rp1) and it will blow a big puff of black smoke at full throttle from a dead stop. Just for a second until the turbo spools...

With it set to SW3 (tq2, tm3 and rp1), I get no smoke from a dead stop.

Are you sure torque management has nothing to do with smoke??

I really could not tell any difference in power to the ground between tq2 and tq3... but I did notice the black smoke.

 

[AH64ID]

I don't understand what you are stating... TIMING on Jr and Sr are the same...



1= stock, 2= standard, 3= mild (less than 2), 4= advanced (more than 2)



I set my S06 (sr) to SW3 (tq3, tm3, rp1) and it will blow a big puff of black smoke at full throttle from a dead stop. Just for a second until the turbo spools...



With it set to SW3 (tq2, tm3 and rp1), I get no smoke from a dead stop.



Are you sure torque management has nothing to do with smoke??



I really could not tell any difference in power to the ground between tq2 and tq3... but I did notice the black smoke.

They may have the same verbage, but I was told that the Smarty Jr was based on aftermarket injector timing (TM3 on the Sr). When I was told that the Jr didn't have Revo, but TM4 now is what was standard when it was released. So TM4=TM3, and if you go off the rest of the information then they are different. Maybe things have changed, but based on the info I received from Bob/Marco that is how it is setup.



On the Jr settings TQ has little to nothing to do with smoke. TQ2 on the JR and SR is the same, but on the Jr TQ3 is weaker than TQ2, where on the Sr TQ3 is stronger. On the Sr I could see TQ3 and TQ4 effecting bottom end smoke, but on the Jr they don't have near the impact of timing.



TM4 on the Jr is like a freight train, and should be similar to TM3 on the Sr. Maybe folks with a Sr are expecting more smoke than the folks that buy a Jr.



Jr . . Sr

SW1 = SW1

SW2 = SW3

SW3 = SW5

TM4 = TM2

TQ2 = TQ2



The rest of the settings, other than 1 (stock) don't correlate.

 

[cerberusiam]

I have talked to some of the most respected cam guys in the Cummins aftermarket world, their input along with identical part numbers is really hard to argue.

Cool, should be some good info there. Do you have their profile numbers compared to OE?



Specifically needed:



Lift

Duration

Duration @ . 050 lift

LSA

Int\Exh open degrees

Int\Exh close degrees





That information seems to be non-existent for some reason. Would like to see what Isky, Comp, and Crane have for offerings and how they address the profiles compared to Colt, Hamilton, Helix.



Back to the timing issue, could you provide the timing break outs for REVO since you seem to have gotten some more info from MADS? I have the TNT specs but finding accurate REVO info is tough. Like LRutigliano says, there are some discrepencies in what exactly the numbers are.

 

[AH64ID]

Cool, should be some good info there. Do you have their profile numbers compared to OE?



Specifically needed:



Lift

Duration

Duration @ . 050 lift

LSA

Int\Exh open degrees

Int\Exh close degrees





That information seems to be non-existent for some reason. Would like to see what Isky, Comp, and Crane have for offerings and how they address the profiles compared to Colt, Hamilton, Helix.

Have you seen this info? I know that Stage 1-3 are also sold by Hamilton and Stage 1 is the same as the PDR.



Cummins 5. 9L Custom Cam Shafts - Improve your Diesel Performance with Colt Cams

Back to the timing issue, could you provide the timing break outs for REVO since you seem to have gotten some more info from MADS? I have the TNT specs but finding accurate REVO info is tough. Like LRutigliano says, there are some discrepencies in what exactly the numbers are.

What type of breakout? I don't know any specific numbers or adjustments, just what on the Jr is like the Sr Revo.

 

[LRutigliano]

They may have the same verbage, but I was told that the Smarty Jr was based on aftermarket injector timing (TM3 on the Sr). When I was told that the Jr didn't have Revo, but TM4 now is what was standard when it was released. So TM4=TM3, and if you go off the rest of the information then they are different. Maybe things have changed, but based on the info I received from Bob/Marco that is how it is setup.



On the Jr settings TQ has little to nothing to do with smoke. TQ2 on the JR and SR is the same, but on the Jr TQ3 is weaker than TQ2, where on the Sr TQ3 is stronger. On the Sr I could see TQ3 and TQ4 effecting bottom end smoke, but on the Jr they don't have near the impact of timing.



TM4 on the Jr is like a freight train, and should be similar to TM3 on the Sr. Maybe folks with a Sr are expecting more smoke than the folks that buy a Jr.



Jr . . Sr

SW1 = SW1

SW2 = SW3

SW3 = SW5

TM4 = TM2

TQ2 = TQ2



The rest of the settings, other than 1 (stock) don't correlate.

Thanks for helping to clarify for me. Its still very confusing. I appreciate the effort. My goal is to find the ideal setting for towing heavy, but its not that easy...

 

[AH64ID]

If I had a Smarty Sr and your injectors I would run SW3, TM3, TQ2, RP1. If you have a issue with EGT's drop it to SW1.

 

[cerberusiam]

If I had a Smarty Sr and your injectors I would run SW3, TM3, TQ2, RP1. If you have a issue with EGT's drop it to SW1.

That works quite well on my truck except I run RP2. Seems to help with the smoke a bit more and doesn't run as high at cruise as RP3. RP3 can get a little high for constant cruising but its helps a bit more in the smoke department.



I have this for TNT. Still trying to verify for REVO and Jr if these are correct or?? I get the feeling that this may be proprietary as never got an answer from MADS.



#1 12*



#4 16*



#3 18*



#2 21*







FYI, this is what I mean by a cam profile:



#ad

 

[BGlidewell]

I wanted to add that the Sr and Jr have very different TQ settings. The most aggressive on the Jr is the same as the least aggressive (other than stock) on the Sr.



On a VERY hot day (above 90°) you will get some increase effect from TQ on smoke on a Jr, but on a normal day (at least normal around here) TQ just doesn't effect the smoke like timing does.

thats probably why then. I was under the impression the "jr was a sr with the hood bashed in".



I can run 9 on 0-4 timing with no perceivable impact on smoke. Any TM and smoke is linear increased and noticeable.

 

[AH64ID]

That works quite well on my truck except I run RP2. Seems to help with the smoke a bit more and doesn't run as high at cruise as RP3. RP3 can get a little high for constant cruising but its helps a bit more in the smoke department.

I have this for TNT. Still trying to verify for REVO and Jr if these are correct or?? I get the feeling that this may be proprietary as never got an answer from MADS.

#1 12*

#4 16*

#3 18*

#2 21*



FYI, this is what I mean by a cam profile:

#ad

Looking at those numbers I would guess that TNT TM3 is similar to Jr TM2, and TNT TM2 is the same as Revo TM3.

But as the HPCR's use very dynamic timing it's hard to pinpoint it to a number like a P7100 truck.


I had all that cam data on my Stage 1, but have no clue where it went. I got it while driving one day, and who knows where my phone call notes went.

 

[cerberusiam]

I had all that data on my Stage 1, but have no clue where it went. I got it while driving one day.

Those are supposedly the starting points for the timing curves. Need a data logger to find the curves.



I am just gonna go buy the AutoEnginuity setup I guess and start logging this stuff until I have a good base. Its only money.

 

[LRutigliano]

If I had a Smarty Sr and your injectors I would run SW3, TM3, TQ2, RP1. If you have a issue with EGT's drop it to SW1.

Thanks!



This is what I have been running (SW3, TQ2, TM3, RP1) and the truck runs great while towing. I can get the EGTs to just touch 1300F if I keep my right foot buried while climbing a big grade (6%) or if I try to accelerate in OD starting at 50mph.



On the flats doing 65 to 70mph, the EGTs are approx 700F.



With my new rebuilt trans, I can get the turbo to bark more than ever before so I have to be careful when shifting into OD...



Last trip I actually got 11mpg, but I didn't have to climb very many grades...



What are the benefits, if any of increasing to TQ3 or RP2 ??

 

[AH64ID]

TQ3 would be hard on the trans when towing, but give a little more bottom end power in 1st and 2nd gear. RP2 would run a little higher pressure, which if you have good filtration can help power.

 

[cerberusiam]

TQ3 would be hard on the trans when towing

. . and not towing plus really hard on rear tires. Makes the truck move a LOT better with less throttle and fun to drive but it definitely has some down sides.

 

[LRutigliano]

. . and not towing plus really hard on rear tires. Makes the truck move a LOT better with less throttle and fun to drive but it definitely has some down sides.

Even with a Source Automotive transmission upgrade? (complete rebuild, laminated flex plate, 3xdisc 1600rpm stall billet cover TC, billet input shaft and Dunrite/Source transbuddy VB)

I thought I should be ok to run Smarty on TQ3 even towing with the trans upgrade...

 

[cerberusiam]

Even with a Source Automotive transmission upgrade? (complete rebuild, laminated flex plate, 3xdisc 1600rpm stall billet cover TC, billet input shaft and Dunrite/Source transbuddy VB)

Your good on the transmission by all accounts. If the build is performing correctly you can tell by looking at the direct clutch pack after driving for 60k or so. Thats where you will see the most wear from the reduced TQ management.



It just moves the strain farther down the line to the ujoints and the tires. Rotate tires frequently or you get uneven wear.

 

[AH64ID]

Strain is strain, the trans can take it but like cerberusiam said it puts that strain somewhere.