Smoke colour ..Timing?

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I've had the BD injectors for about 2 months now and they are great. Good power and alot less smoke under load or accelerating. We already discussed the timing issue, spill port versus the pulse method and I am aware of the pitfalls so far.

Now that the temperature is getting cool, this morning I noticed that after the 25 min drive on the highway to work. Once I got into the stop and go traffic, the water temp gets cool sitting there, like one tick above C. When I would get up to go, I would get alot of blue or even white smoke. I don't remember having this before.
Is this improper timing??? Weak pump??? #ad

My compression was good, 5 cyls at 360, one at 380. The timing is supposed to be at 10°, as far as they could tell with the pulse method.
Any help is appreciated guys.

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Jason's Lil' Mack - 89 D250LE 2WD 5 Spd 3. 54 Reg Cab. K&N,"tweaked pump", BD Hi perf Injectors, Banks Pyro/Boost, 3. 5" Exst tail section straight. 23 Lbs boost.
E&M Custom seats. Bosch H4, PIAA 80W/80W HdLites. 100W Drv,55W Fogs.
232,500 miles (372,000 Kms) 7700 Hrs.

 

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Hi Jason.

The problem may be the engine is just getting too cold because of the thermostat sicking open.

The KSB valve is supposed to advance the timing to prevent blue/white smoke during warm-up. Since the low coolant temp. occurs after the truck WAS warm the KSB may not reactivate (although it may be close to doing so) and therefore the smoke.

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'93 W350 Club Cab, Bright White, 5 sp. , 130K, Factory Options: LE, 4. 10 Limited Slip, 7600 lb. rear springs, tachometer, front stabilizer bar. Mods: Banks stinger plus, Linex bedliner, 25,000 lb gooseneck ball, 10,000 lb receiver, Tekonsha brake controller, POWER WAGON injectors-WAY faster than stock!.

 

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I haven't noticed a problem with the KSB as it works as normal in the morning and holds until she gets warm.
Is there a better thermostat to keep warm?? I replaced this one when my block heater blew about 6 months ago, but I haven't noticed a change in the op temps. They gave me the "89" version. Do the newer ones(92-93) keep warmer and do they fit?
You can email direct if you wish Mark
Thanks again for the info.

 

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It sounds to me like timing - too far retarded. I should also point out, that I have seen 1st gen engines that will faintly trail a little blue when half-warm - but run very good otherwise. You should NOT, however, smoke when warm. After having driven for miles, and have the water temp up to normal, you should not have any smoke when idling.

I would suggest you advance the timing at least 2 engine degrees. If you are going to do this via plunger travel... Then, the true TDC must be located (via testing piston travel) and then set the pump to 1. 35mm travel at TDC.

There is a small possibility that you have a bad injector nozzle (stuff happens, ya know). It would be unwise to run the engine long that way.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just had a nasty thought... Give you fuel the "sniff test". If you have some gasoline in it, it will do just as you describe. It might run OK, but it'll smoke when not working.

Just a thought.


[This message has been edited by Power Wagon (edited 09-06-2000). ]

 

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PW
I've filled at the same station for about 3 years now, and used to work there when I was a teen, the Diesel is the real deal.

The truck smoked the same before the injector upgrade, so the nozzle theory may still be a prob, but less likely. I thought that this(new injectors) would take care of the smoke.

Since they kept the timing the same, I have a feeling that this is my problem. I DIDN'T have the pump set by spill port, I'm sorry now, and TDC was not confirmed. I think that I will take it back and get them to advance it about 1-2 degrees if they can. I understand this may be difficult with their pulse system but, if it fixes it, they have to do it.
Fuel dilution in the oil will kill the engine and evaporate the rings.

BTW, A diesel mechanic (industrial) immediately said that its the turbo seals and I am burning oil!!! #ad
The last time I took the pipe off and looked at the turbo was about a year ago, and didn't see any seepage. Whewww!
Thanks again guys for the guidence.

Jason

 

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Hi, Jason.
Sorry I can't provide you with any answers to your questions?

I was wondering are the high perfomance BD injectors new or are they rebuilt?

Thanks,
Al

 

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Al
The injectors aren't "high performance" as the shop told me. Piers set me straight as they are 180Hp industrial injectors. They seem to do the job. I told the shop that I wanted new and they said that these ones were. I didn't want remans as they were the same cost anyway.

The smoke thing was still there this morning #ad
, only this time the engine wasn't as cold. Seems to be only after idling for a couple of minutes, if its crawl and go traffic it stays pretty grey and not as white. I may back off the aneroid to see if that helps till I can get the timing adjusted.

Jason

I think that I may inspect the turbo anyway to see if there is oil in the turbine. That may be the problem, I hope not.

[This message has been edited by Lil' Dog (edited 09-08-2000). ]

 

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I'm pretty sure it's timing. If your turbo seals were shot, you'd be losing oil... Are you?

BTW, the turbo "seals" are little more than split metal rings. If you're leaking oil that way, either you've got one that's broken, or the bearings are toast. Either way, it's not going to just smoke a bit when cold.

 

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Fair enough. The oil consumption is up a wee bit but not much more than it was before. Usually about 1 litre(quart) in between oil changes.
The last time I had the down pipe off I bumped the impellor and turbine, the clearances seemed to be within a reasonable amount. The thrust clearance was very tight, which was suprising. I'm just wondering why... I hope I can get in soon to get the timing adjusted. 1-2° eh, Hmmmm, I hope they can do er...

Jason

 

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Guys,

Thought I'd share some info about Ol' Blue with you.

Since new the truck has always used @1 quart between oil changes (every 6,000 miles). For about the last 2 years it has blue smoked when I first leave the house on a cold mornin'. It will do it at low rpm's only for about the first 2-3 miles on a two lane road, slow @30 mph. When it is warm outside or after the truck warms up, I do not have this condition (will not call it a problem, cause I don't think it is). Do you guys think this is a problem?? Mine is a 2wd reg cab 3/4 and it get @23 mpg daily and on a long trip at @70 mph it will get just under 25 mpg.
I've read where the early first gens did not have the tight tolerances on the cylinders that the later ones had which contributes to oil loss. I am not sure if it is burning it or if it is coming out of the blow by tube. From day one the truck has always kept the under carriage well lubed. If you get up under it you can see where oil has coated the underneath of the engine and trans. It's always done this and it never drips oil on anything so I thought it was normal.
Just looking for your opinions.

later
Don

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1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54, 140,000, Banks stage III powerpack straight exhaust, pump adjustments, still looking for more power in the form of new injectors
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed WARN fenderflares,Let, 275hp injectors installed, boost and pyro gages, VA plug'n power Love it, Jacobs E brake
May buy another one in 2009!!

 

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HI Big Don.

My oil consumption is exactly what your's is (wish fuel consumtion was too). Never lets a drop on the ground but trans and transfer case are nicely oiled.

 

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I haven't had a problem with my 92 lubricating the underside of my truck, except when a seal on the front of the engine started leaking, then it got pretty oily. But Cummins West took care of that, it stays in pretty good shape for having 225,000 miles on it. I would like to have it steamed cleaned and get the accumulation of dirt and oil off that a car wash won't touch, plus it is hard to see it all when you are laying on the ground.

Rodney

 

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I think in mid year 91 when they went intercooled, they changed the piston, rings and block honing methods to control oil consumption. I can't really comment on the mileage except to say that I do not grandpa it or railroad it. , I drive to suit me. I've tried driving like an old man and may get . 5 to 1 mpg better.

 

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My 92 has approximately 79,000 K on the odometer and it does not leak any oil and I never have to add any oil between oil changes (every 5,000 K).

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92-LE,Cummins,Tach,4x4,5spd,3. 54,Borgeson steering shaft,

 

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Update:
Had the truck in last week on Friday and they confirmed TDC with the drop valve method and found the pin was out by 0. 1°. Not much, basically wear on the cam gears.
But he re-confirmed the timing to 10° at 800 RPM and said that advancing is not recommended with the older pumps. And now doing a little research I see why with the pump advancing the timing with speed.
Basically if the smoke doesn't clear up, it would require a pump repair inspection, sorry not another $800 bones.
At this time of year, its hard to see smoke over vapour. LOL. (0°F last week)

Jeh