So what oils now??

[cruiser_2]

I read with interest the recent set of articles on the new oil specifications for diesel oils. I see that all his best picks were all CI-4 spec oils. and that all the CJ-4 oils were Ho Hum. His disclaimer to use the CJ-4 oils only if you have a diesel particulate filter leaves me somewhat at a loss.



Since Oil companies will no longer produce the CI-4 oils and the shelf stocks of the CI-4 oils are mostly depleted, What should we use now? We had excellent analysis of the oils and a very good description of the addatives agents and their effects. What he did not do was to expand on the analysis to include what additives we need to add to the CJ-4 oils to make them perform to the specifications that we need.



Furthermore, will companies such as cummins back up their products and warranty vehicle engines produced prior to these newer specifications? What is Cummins official position on these new oils on older engines? I was in the airport in Nashville recently and speaking with a Cummins Representative when he told me that if I were to use the cummins oils and filters that they would replace and engine under warranty if the damage was caused by and oil or filter failure even if the engine was like mine with almost 500,000 miles. I tended to pass this off as salesman bravado and hype (how can you tell if a salesman is lying? his lips are moving).



These are just a few thoughts on this topic. I am sorry for the long post, but I just thought some of these quiestions need to be answered. Thanks for the soapbox to discuss these issues.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

AH, yet another "Oil" thread... :-laf



IF you're confused now, you'll probably just get MORE confused by replies offered in this thread!



Some, like me, feel the CI4-Plus oils were about the best ever offered, and provided long life and engine protection unmatched by previous lubes, or the one that now replaces it - some of us feel so strongly that way, that we stockpile supplies of the CI4 stuff, hoping that eventually oil companies that were forced to frantically scrambled to provide an EPA dictated oil to comply with new emission requirements, will eventually come up with newer revisions of lubes that WILL comply with emission requirements for newer engines, but also will again restore the longer term excellence and protection of the older CI4 lubes.



THEN, there will be those who will insist that we are foolish, our concerns are unfounded - that the oil refiners wouldn't knowingly produce and market lubes they NEW were inferior to what was previously available - and that major engine makers surely would NOT fall in line, and also embrace the new lubes and continue to offer long-term engine warranties while the new lubes were in use...



Of course, the synthetic makers, sellers and users figure they have the alternate solution - as well as a relative handful of smaller niche refiner/suppliers.



As to additives to restore what the newer lubes no longer provide - pretty tough, what with EPA controls, as well as the relatively wide variations in the basic lubes offered by the major refiners - an aftermarket additive package product that is engineered to work well with oil brand "A", might work poorly with brand "B". etc.



THERE. that pretty well covers the available variations in posts to soon follow - let's see how it plays out! :-laf:-laf

 

[steved]

I will add only one thing...

The oils "tested" by TDR were virgin oil analyses (VOAs) of new oil, which might not reflect what the oil actually does in real world use. We can only "guess" that our understanding of VOAs of past oils will be that same as those in the newer oils, however there might be oil components that are currently added that do not register on a VOA...

A couple used oil analyses (UOAs) would have been more representative of real world results, but because of time constraints (you need mileage to test oils) I can see why they didn't.

steved

 

[JFaughn]

I think a solution would be to do more frequent oil analysis , till things settle out .
Change your oil by analysis , thats all you can do in the long run , with an eng that as a life of 500,000 + , who can afford to buy that much CI-4 , if you could find it .
I thought it was an interesting read , but my results [ oil does not get black for over 2,000 miles & analysis says good at 11,000 -TBN 9++, Rotella T 15w-40 ] .
Did I read that some have read labels of newer oils that were not CI-4 , but were marked that way ?

 

[steved]

I've read a couple threads that indicated bottles of oil were marked with both CI-4 and CJ-4 ratings, which I find strange (is it the "backwards compatible" thing??).



I also read a post that indicated that some of the new Rotella "Tripple Protection"-labeled bottles were marked CI-4+, and not CJ-4 like I have seen everywhere... so you need to look for the rating, not just the bottle's markings.



steved

 

[MAllen1]

Now, I use fleetguard filters because I pass by cummins south on my way to work. As far as oils are concerned, i've noticed that a lot of your synthetic 15w-40 is staying CI-4, at least amsoil has stayed (so far). I've also noticed that amsoil has a 10W-40 that is CI-4 and i think royal purple is still CI-4 on their 15w-40. To compensate for the price of synthetic I run between 7500-15000 miles, depending on driving conditions (trailer towing, freeway vs. city driving, etc. )

 

[2Rowdy]

I work at a CASE/CASE IH dealership and ackela is the manufacturer for our oil and some other sister companies. I talked to them about the oil situation and CASE is not going to accept cj-4. They are going to keep making ci-4. I have used it for years in my cummins and my duramax. A large majority of our engines are cummins.

 

[steved]

Now, I use fleetguard filters because I pass by cummins south on my way to work. As far as oils are concerned, i've noticed that a lot of your synthetic 15w-40 is staying CI-4, at least amsoil has stayed (so far). I've also noticed that amsoil has a 10W-40 that is CI-4 and i think royal purple is still CI-4 on their 15w-40. To compensate for the price of synthetic I run between 7500-15000 miles, depending on driving conditions (trailer towing, freeway vs. city driving, etc. )

I think a lot of it has to do with the expense of the change to CJ-4 more than the better/worse oil argument.



And since this is a fairly new thing and not yet a 100% requirement (until what, 2010??)... they might not be focusing on the new diesel market.



steved

 

[steved]

I work at a CASE/CASE IH dealership and ackela is the manufacturer for our oil and some other sister companies. I talked to them about the oil situation and CASE is not going to accept cj-4. They are going to keep making ci-4. I have used it for years in my cummins and my duramax. A large majority of our engines are cummins.

What are they going to do when the CJ-4 requirement is mandatory in all applications (both on-road and off-road)??? After 2010 (IIRC) they won't have the choice of CJ-4 or CI-4 by the sounds of it... .



steved

 

[AMassaro]

That's why you should stock up on CI+4 now... . At least companies like Schaeffer will continue making it until 2010. I hope that additives like LC20 and Torco MPZ FR are continued to be made well into the future. I like lots of moly... . :-laf

 

[SuperSteeler]

Okay, I have a question. I went to the local TSC where I normally buy my Rotella 15-40 5 gallon pails. All the five gallons were new CJ-4. They did have some 2. 5 gallon jugs of CI-4+. But when I unscrewed the tops I noticed there was no seal so I didn't buy them thinking maybe somebody returned them with used oil. Yesterday I stopped at a different TSC and again found several 2. 5 gallon jugs of CI-4+ with no seals. I bought 3 thinking maybe Shell never put seals on these containers. But instead might TSC have been told to dump the old stuff and replace it with CJ-4? Did I buy a wolf in sheep's clothing?

 

[2Rowdy]

What are they going to do when the CJ-4 requirement is mandatory in all applications (both on-road and off-road)??? After 2010 (IIRC) they won't have the choice of CJ-4 or CI-4 by the sounds of it... .



steved

I didn't ask that but they are great on the phone. If I get A chance I will call them again.