Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting So, you're looking for advice on your first AR...

[GHarman]

Not to change the focus of this thread, but it is a noteworthy idea. If the flash suppressor indexing is more critical that thought!
Some contend that a radial venting of gasses from a Brake creates less bullet deflection, as the bullet clears the crown of the barrel, inside the Brake.
A Brake on a small bore rifle would also double as a flash suppressor. That being said, The flash suppressors on the M-14 and, IIRC, the M-16-A1 were blind on the bottom to prevent a dust signature when firing in the prone position. Some brakes have the same characteristics. With no science to back my thoughts other than the claims of those that market these accessories. I reckon we will have to study more,. on the subject =)!
Concentricity to the bore and a properly crowned barrel with adequate bullet clearance are all basics I believe we can agree on.
GregH

Found HH's Micor industries link to twist specific flash hiders! HMMMM???? I wish there was a technical discussion that accompanied the marketing.
http://www.micordefense.com/Flash-Hiders_c_1.html

 

[GHarman]

Some news from RUGER!
My SR556 gets a NEW BARREL!
"After trying a "Variety of Ammo" Technicians found that the rifle WOULD NOT GROUP"!"
So that is a real eye opener! I wonder what rifle was used the first trip into the shop?
Mine or a "shop control unit"?
Well, satisfaction can be had with a quality company that stands by their product.
Course, for the price paid, they better take care of their customers!
GregH

 

[The patriot]

That's good news Greg.

 

[Sticks]

Hopefully they test fire the new barrel for grouping before shipping.

 

[Sticks]

... A Brake on a small bore rifle would also double as a flash suppressor. ...

No, not really. Just directs the flash in a specific direction.

There is one brake/comp that does also work a little better at flash suppression made by BCM.

 

[GHarman]

Received my Ruger, late this morning. UPS delivery.
The barrel was replaced. It was obviously rebarreled because the original configuration barrel was replaced with a lighter contour. There is a flat on this barrel that is indexed on the side of the chamber area and not on top, where you might think? Obvious wear scratches on the receiver and as well as a "not so tight" set of sights that they replaced with the new sights that were on the rifle:--). I reckon they did not like the tone of my letter:-laf! That being said, the photocopies of the groups(fired at 50 yards) looked promising. They tested 5 shot groups with Hornady 55 Gr and American Eagle 55 Gr and both groups were quite smaller than the 3 shot group fired the first time with the 68 Gr. Hornady match ammo. I will certainly shoot it to see how it performs, but am really convinced that I need to do the direct impingement rifle from a build. I hate to admit it but BIG told me so, last year! Might hold on to this one until I can get the other rifle built. Then we shall see? Unless I get "an offer I can't refuse"! Oo.

Addenum;
I called Ruger and told them what I had found on their second try! I was referred to Gail, a supervisor and told her the above description of my issues. A change in configuration and questionable workmanship.
She told me that I should try out the rifle and see if it performed to expectations. If not? I should give her a call. She left me a direct number to call her!
I reckon we shall see what transpires with this adventure! Its been a YEAR since I bought this rifle! Ya think there just might be a lemon out there?
GregH

 

[Sticks]

Well good to hear it finally came home. I was beginning to wonder where it went.

Every company out there is subject to a Lemon occasionally, BCM, Daniel Defense, Larue, Knights, even Colt. It happens. I'd be a little miffed if a rifle that I had only shot a few times was sent in for repairs and returned came back looking like it had a lot of mileage put on it though.

If all else, you can use the Ruger lower as a platform and start building from that. Put the upper up for sale on M4carbine, ColoradoAR15, and Gunbroker. You could even check with 5280, and other local shops for consignment sale (not recommended for getting the most out of it though).

It's time to start watching the online shops for Black Friday/Monday sales. PSA, Outdoor Gear Barn, Midway USA, BCM, etc... all usually have some smokin' deals on components, parts & kits.

 

[GHarman]

I was checking the trigger, yesterday. It needs ALOT of work!
Nothing I could not fix. Just thinking that this lower is not where I want to start.
The price difference is significant. Ruger has a suggested retail price on these of $1999.
I got this one through Davidsons Gallery of Guns, at a significant discount.
So, my thoughts are, all or none! After I do shoot it, I will probably ask for remediation because of the barrel configuration change, indexing issues, the obvious
"hammer mechanic" tracks on the receiver and the fact that they took the new sights and replaced them with worn out sloppy junk! I would not hesitate to seek a refund! If they send a new rifle? We'll build one and see how they compare, side by side?

Component wise? I doubt that I could get the money necessary to break even, just selling the upper.
That leaves me with a very HIGH PRICED Lower that functions like a competitors $250 complete lower receiver!

There were actually about 120 rounds through the rifle, during my testing plus what ever they fired in the old barrel. The new barrel is starting with their round count.

GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

Hmmm, that doesnt' sound like Ruger customer service..... but it's been a while... I've never liked their final fit and finish on self-loaders... Even the 10-22 was a bit crude, but they functioned well. Regardless, I thought they had come up in quality from 10years ago.... I'd be ticked, too. Especially if they beat up my receiver!! That's my job!! GRRRR I wonder what the flat is? That's strange... right behind the barrel extension? And lighter contour should be fine, especially in your climate!! Might be nice to warm the hands with!! :-laf

Well, keep us up to date on the accuracy part....

 

[Sticks]

let me know when you think you are going to go test fire it. Maybe we can get together and you can do a side by side with one of mine. Apples to oranges, but you would get the feel for a modern assembled DI.

 

[GHarman]

HH, Will do!
Sticks, That would be fun!
GregH

 

[GHarman]

Heres what I am thinking about for the upper and lower receivers and bolt carrier group.
Feel Free to comment! Looking at tight tolerances.
GregH

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...ers/ar15-forged-lower-receiver-prod56132.aspx

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...-15-m16-modular-upper-receiver-prod32503.aspx

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...Auto-M16-p/bcm bolt carrier group auto mp.htm

 

[Sticks]

The lower is a bit high, but I doubt you'll find one cheaper (I paid $50 ea. for both of mine), but I don't see a problem with it - more to point, never heard of any problems.

Upper and BCG - excellent choices.

Be careful. You still need a barrel, gas tube, gas block, BUIS (not mandatory), muzzle device, handguard, barrel nut (if not included with the handguard). That adds up quick - this is where you buy the upper that you want cheaper than assembling it.

Kind of like our trucks, you need to know the direction you want to go with it before BOMBing it ~ Towing or Race.

BCM has a lengthy list of complete uppers with many variations.

Here is my list of usual suspects.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&searchstart=9&keywords=lower

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05.html

BCM you have

https://www.outdoorgearbarn.com/c-2017-rifle-parts.aspx?selection=897129

http://dsgarms.com/

http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/index

https://www.centurionarms.net/

Amazon.com

MidwayUSA.com

BuyItNowBay (EBay)

M4carbine buy sell trade.

ColoradoAR15 buy sell trade.

Craigslist - though difficult since technically they don't allow "firearm" sales but you can still get parts.

There's probably a dozen more including the other top rifle manufacturers (Daniel Defense, Noveske, Larue, etc...) that have individual items. I have yet to find my build/shopping list for the other two, probably in the other hard drive (corrupt OS). I'll see if I can dig it out.

Know what you want, then hit all the sites looking for them, best price and/or shipping (sometimes offsets a higher price). It's a long painstaking process. If I had to guess, I have spent easily 40 hours sitting in front of my computer shopping around for each assembly. I keep a spreadsheet going, and most of them when I had my internet options saved would keep the shopping cart with the items I selected. I can't stress the shipping enough. You may find cheaper prices at 8 different webshops, but the shipping from all 8 would end up costing more than if you bought groups of it from the second or third cheapest.

Spreadsheet design;

Columns for each part that you need ~ Lower, FCG, Grip, Trigger Guard, RE, Stock, Upper Receiver, Barrel (shipping at the end) ...

Rows for each retailer. Totals at the end of each row.

Once I narrowed down my options I would make a copy on another sheet and start deleting individual items from each retailer to get the best pricing group, and hope everyone was either in stock or prices had not changed.


NOTE - getting tired of being kicked off the forum when writing posts, and having to re-write the whole darn thing. Gotta remember to check the "Remember Me" box.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I'd like to throw some out there, just for what I'm seeing right now, as there are so many options available.......

For parts, I'm currently using: (check out their lower blems!!)
http://core15rifles.com/upper-and-lowers/

For complete uppers, there are some guys down the road from me I trade with occasionally, as I get a lot of mil parts I trade for from time to time. They have pretty decent pricing on uppers, but they also have a building engine on their website so you can accessorize using what parts you want from a list of components.....

http://www.model1sales.com/

 

[The patriot]

Palmetto is having an awesome pre BF sale on lowers.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...-lower-receiver-w-integral-trigger-guard.html

 

[GHarman]

Sticks, THANKS Again, LOTS of Good Information, there! I looked at the links. Lots of GOOD Sources!Oo.
I lost my original reply, also, for the same reason!:roll eyes:
My fault for nor hitting the "remember me" button!

HH, Thank You, Sir! I checked out your links. More good stuff!
Now, just getting the plan together!

Patriot, Thank You! I checked out the sale! WOW! Those are CHEAP!
The best pricing advantage would be to buy several!:-laf

I do like the BCM complete lower for $395.
Quality stuff in one package!
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/cart
Cheaper than an LMT complete lower!
Except the LMT complete lowers are available locally. With an 8.02% tax tacked onto the price!

I do have a preference for the "Diamondhead" full floating fore end.
They are available in different lengths. Heres an example.
http://www.store-diamondhead-usa.com/VRS_T_Free_FloatIng_Handguard_System_p/2231.htm

So I will continue to explore! Time is presently not available to get much done.
GregH

 

[Sticks]

Interesting rail. Never heard of them. I wish there were more pics of it, be curious to know if there is mounting options on the bottom. Also to make sure it comes with a barrel nut.

I personally like the round style handguards now that I have shot one on my MK12. The Centurion C4 that I have on my 16 is awesome, light and sturdy, I just like the feel of the round ones better as far as grip and control. Downside is the attaching of picatiny sections for a weapon light, forward grip, etc. Screws can come loose (blue locktite is your friend).

I almost bought the PSA lowers last year when they were on sale, 5 for 200. That particular one they have this year with that forged trigger guard, I've got mixed feelings about that. If it was a good thing I suspect that all the lowers would have them rather than installing one. Hard call.

Tax...another reason I try to do all my buying online. For the time being it's tax free, and lord knows Hickenlooper and Obama get enough of my blood. The only way I buy local (other than food, fuel, construction materials for the home) is if the price with tax is better than I can find online, or I am in a desperate pinch.

Nothing wrong with LMT. Another good company. Should be able to find them online...if they are in stock.

 

[GHarman]

Heres a different lower that I do like but it is REALLY Pricey!
It is ambidextrous! It is also a billet receiver! I understand the metallurgy. But I haven't heard any pros and cons from anyone who has nothing to gain from my decision. It comes with a kit, not including the hammer, trigger or their springs. What do you think?
GregH

http://axtsweapons.com/products/AX556

Heres a couple of builds. But no performance, just eye candy!
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?142089-AXTS-Build

 

[Sticks]

The AXTS is a nice lower, top quality. Proprietary parts though. That was one absolute that I did not want in either of my assemblies. Same reason I did not go with a VLTOR lower.

The abmi controls are nice and beneficial IF you plan on doing a fair amount of shooting strong and support side (regardless if you are left or right handed). Otherwise I'd just stick with an ambi fire selector, and maybe a BAD lever for the bolt release. Ergo stick with a standard lower, especially for your first assembly ~ IMO only. You are the one that has to shoot it.

I have the ambi mag release (Troy) on my 16" and I really have not used it that much. I don't loose any time at all when firing support side by using my right thumb to hit the mag release on my way to grabbing another mag. There is enough muscle coordination and gear shifting when shooting support side as it is to try to toss in using my index finger to hit the ambi mag release. I'm doing good just to get the rifle on safe (if applicable), finger off the trigger, scanning for threats, and trying to grab and orientate a mag that was placed for a left handed grab during the reload.

If you do decide to go with the AXTS lower, I'd buy a spare LPK for it. They are a new company, and if they go under, nobody else has parts.

Here is what I learned about ambi controls. If you have them they are awesome. If you find yourself in a situation that you end up shooting one that does not have them - the wheels fall off the wagon. I expanded on this in my Mike Pannone AAR (link to it in the OP). I bought all these ambi controls and had to be taught now NOT to use them. When we were doing the malfunction clearing, I saw several people on both sides, myself included (with and without on their own rifle) that ended up stumbling when they grabbed a rifle with a different configuration than theirs.

 

[GHarman]

Sticks, Proprietary and new manufacturer, understood!
It was just interesting AND EXPENSIVE!

However, I am interested in a further discussion on the Plus and minus's between Forged and Billet receivers.
I would only consider the lower for the alternative. I have just about locked in on the VLTOR Forged upper.
Since the lower is primarily a carrier for the fire control group, the attachment point for the spring and buffer assembly. (one weak spot)
and the method of attaching the upper to the fire control group. Front pin ears are the second weak spot on a billet. I have heard that the billet is stronger (given the same alloy, 7075 T-6)
Is that sales talk or just what is the mystery, here. It would seem to me that it is far easier to set up a CNC milling center around a block of raw alloy vs cleaning up a precision forging? So, #1 is ease of manufacturing. But that still does not make it "better for the end user"!
Love to hear from everyone!
GregH