Sobering info if you are not "legal."

[Mtngoat]

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=24262



Robin

 

[Dane]

That is sad...

Very good reason not to be over mfg tow limits. Puts you in a for sure to lose lawsuit position. Looks like that guys life is pretty much ruined, just for being a little stupid and trying to have fun. Not to mention the family of the person he killed.



Another point is the amount he was insured for. $300,000 is not nearly enough. If someone is killed and you are to blame you're toast with the "standard" liability and damage amounts. Pl and PD of $1,000,000 is the least you should run with imo.



Also, If you loan your truck/car to anyone - son/daughter, neighbor, bestfriend, etc, and they get in a wreck, the insurance co is going to come after you too...

 

[JohnCooper]

A few months ago on a Sunday afternoon I was driving from San Diego to my home in Orange County up the 5 fwy. I was passed by a young man driving a 1/2 ton truck pulling large cabin cruiser boat. This boat and trailer had to be close to 10,000lbs or more (a friend of mine has a smaller boat than the one this guy was towing and it weighs 8,500lbs). His rear suspension was bottomed out and when he would go over bumps in the freeway you could see the frame flexing (the gap between the bed and the cab would change 1-2"). The scarry part was he going 65-70mph and weaving in and out of slower traffic. I let him go by and stayed a safe distance back, I sure didn't want to be in front or beside of him.



I don't remember how many times I recalculated what I could tow with my truck before I bought my trailer. I would run the calculation and then I would see someone towing a large 5th wheel with 3 slides or a large toy hauler with his 2500 and I would try to figure out how he was doing it, every time I ran the calc it came up with same answer: "Not Legally". The disturbing part is there are a lot people doing this and some RV dealers are helping them.

 

[Bertram65]

I agree with the overloading comments but I have a hard time believing the story, especially doing time for it, if that is the case then perhaps the real reason for the lawsuit and jail time wasn't the fact the the truck was overloaded but that he was driving is such a way to cause the accident, even at that you very rarely ever see someone do time for killing someone with a vehicle unless it is DUI or racing.

 

[Mtngoat]

I don't know if its true or not, I just thot I would pass it on. I work in the court systems and I have seen people go to prison for fatal accidents, most recently a young man went because he went left of center in a no passing zone and hit another car head on, killing a young woman.

But I agree the guy was probably driving HUA!



Robin

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

One of the most common and saddest tendencies on this and similar boards is the constant lies owners will tell themselves and others as to what is "safe" and "acceptable" in terms of loads for our trucks...



Sure, you CAN tow well over the clearly posted CVWR/GCWR of these trucks - AT A PRICE - that price might simply be in increased wear and tear on your hardware - OR perhaps be measured in tragic loss of life and property damage.



GET ENOUGH TRUCK FOR THE JOB YOU INTEND TO USE THE TRUCK FOR!



Your hardware will thank you in decent lifespan and fewer broken parts - and those you would otherwise put in serious danger will thank you as well...



There ain't no free lunch - you can't SAFELY put 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag, and towing an 8 ton load with a truck only rated to safely tow 6 tons - and then compounding your foolishness by carelessly suggesting it's OK for others to imitate YOUR recklessness - is foolishly living in denial of fact!

 

[y-knot]

I agree totally with the lies and self denial. They say if you eat ****t long enough, you can convince yourself it taste good? The same goes for sites similar to these, people justify their ignorance by what other do or at least say they do. Comb Thur any trailering site and look at what people pull their huge fifth wheels with. Most all fifth wheels should be pulled by a dual rear wheel truck, but the most common pull vehicle is the 2500 series single rear wheel truck. These heavy trailers need more then the single rear wheels to safely tow their heavy loads, not just because of the shear weight, but also for the stability and added safety of the two extra wheels. Most trailers that are involved in an accident, got wrecked because the lead vehicle was overpowered by the towed Vachel. Usually it seems to happen on down grades were the trailer starts to wag and causes the driver to loose control. Of coarse their are many factors that contribute to a wreck, speed, experience, weight, truck type, trailer type and weather conditions all play a role, but stupidity is the most common factor. Towing heavier loads then your truck was made to tow is stupid. Hauling heavier loads or applying more tongue weight then your truck was designed to haul is stupid. Stupidity is nothing new it has been around as long as the world it self. It is not effected by age, gender, political beliefs or race. It transcends all levels of intelligence, mechanical ability and science. It is the number one reason for accidents, and has little to do with economics or local. Stupidity..... the art of doing something you know to be wrong... . allowing it to continue... with little or no regard for those who might be hurt by your actions... allowing common sense to take a back seat to convenience and effort..... putting your needs above everyone Else's right to exist... stepping over the line of good judgment and laughing about it... living for the moment of YOU and willingly putting others life's at risk..... thinking about you, now, this moment and ME and not caring for them,or their futures.

I live not far from I-75 in the Florence area, one of the worst areas in the country for accident. I-75 has an accident every 6 minuets somewhere along it's route, and most of them happen in this 12 mile stretch of road that runs Thur the area of which I live. We see it all here, tractor trailers, travel trailers, cars, trucks and motorcycles. Most accidents are caused by not paying attention, some on the weather, while others on drunk driving and falling asleep. But most because of someone's stupidity.

 

[rfcom]

Stupidity is nothing new it has been around as long as the world it self.

I disagree. It's only been around as long as humans have.

 

[Bertram65]

I do not think the wag and sway is near as common with 5th wheels as with bumper pulls which I think the trailer in the story was. SRW trucks, specifically 1 tons with 9900lbs GVW can pull some pretty good size 5th wheels and be within the specs of the vehicle. I am not trying it start an argument, I agree that people should tow within the specified limits of the trucks. You read it all the time including here about towing huge loads and how in the eye's of the person writing it is safe because the plan ahead for stops live in a rural area, or they have added stuff to thier truck which again in their eye's increases the vehicles capacity. My trailer is small but I can definetly tell it is there, but it has never made me feel unsafe in terms of stoping or handling.



Y-Knot, how heavy is that 36' trailer you have? I am just curious not trying to flame you.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Here's an ugly I had in my archives.

 

[NIsaacs]

The story is too vague, to come to any conclusions as to where the fault lies. The combo didn't sound so far out of bounds, just based on the story. What or where was he over weight? The law looks at the license weight rating in a combo like this, more than anyting else. This is a very unfortunate accident that points to driver error, inexperiance towing, and bad judgement.





"NICK"

 

[Ron Bissett]

Best hitch made. One that worked . Ron Bissett in Metro Louisville KY

 

[Sarge]

All of your arguements are correct. After 22 years in the enforcement business, I have come to the conclusion that the biggest tradgeies are not usually the guy that's running over weight. It's the unfortunate souls that are around him when the crap hits the fan. Klenger on this site has a web page with an article that hits the tow weight issue head on. It is a reality based article about how much you can tow safely, and walks you through the steps to figure it out. A lot of folks would be afraid to find out how much they can actually tow legally and safely. I know that some folks tow WAY over their vehicle tow limits, and I see them pull into camp grounds all the time. I just try to make sure that they leave first when we pull out... ... ... ... . Sarge

 

[JL penner]

Just out of curiosity, If you beef up your suspension with airbags, does this increase your legal towing weight? i. e. turn a 2500 into a 2 ton payload capability. Where is the weak link in the truck?

 

[Sarge]

The airbags just level out the over weight load, and perhaps improve the ride. The over weight load is still on the tires, axles, frame, and BRAKES. Also the drive train is only engineered to pull so much. Air bags are usually a RV dealer's way of justifying that huge trailer he is trying to sell someone. I have really ticked off a few salesmen to the point that they have walked off when I informed them that if I needed air bags to level my truck, then their RV was too heavy and would be unsafe behind my truck... ... ...

 

[SBashaw]

One of the most common and saddest tendencies on this and similar boards is the constant lies owners will tell themselves and others as to what is "safe" and "acceptable" in terms of loads for our trucks...



Sure, you CAN tow well over the clearly posted CVWR/GCWR of these trucks - AT A PRICE - that price might simply be in increased wear and tear on your hardware - OR perhaps be measured in tragic loss of life and property damage.



GET ENOUGH TRUCK FOR THE JOB YOU INTEND TO USE THE TRUCK FOR!



Your hardware will thank you in decent lifespan and fewer broken parts - and those you would otherwise put in serious danger will thank you as well...



There ain't no free lunch - you can't SAFELY put 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag, and towing an 8 ton load with a truck only rated to safely tow 6 tons - and then compounding your foolishness by carelessly suggesting it's OK for others to imitate YOUR recklessness - is foolishly living in denial of fact!

The only thing that man has learned from history, is that man doesn't learn from history

 

[y-knot]

Air bags are a suspension supplement not an actual suspension. Nothing you do to your truck will change it's rated towing capacity that is stated on the tag affixed to the doors B-post. That rating is also based on you running the correct tires at the correct pressures. I do use air bags, but my intention is not to carry more weight then legally allowed, but rather use them to allow a more comfortable ride. I removed the overload spring packs, and use the bags to support the truck, making the rear ride on air. It really does make for a much better ride, empty or loaded. My air bags are good for some 5,000lbs, but that does not make my truck legal to haul more then it's specified weight rating.

Towing at the maximum rating, requires driving on the defensive all the time. You need to allow room all around you in case someone does something careless or worse. People love to cut in front of others, most time without thinking about the guy they just cut off, his load or his increased braking time. You need to constantly think for them, what they may do, what you will do, it is a never ending chess game were you are constantly watching others moves and adjusting to them. My wife is the best co-pilot I have ever had, she fully understands whats at stake and how to adjust to the moves of others. She will not drive our truck, loaded or empty but she is more then capable to pilot it. It might sound goofy, but driving while towing a heavy load is exhausting, you are constantly on the look-out, adjusting and anticipating others moves. There is no room for hot heads, tailgaters or idiots while towing, sure others will make moves that are foolish, un thoughtful or plain stupid, but that is to be expected. Most people do not no what it is to drive while towing a heavy load, they do not think about the increased stopping distance, the inability to make sudden corrections or moves, or the extra amount of space you and your rig require. You are forced to think for them, out smarting them by taking a defensive stance and making the needed corrections before they come into play. Truck drivers have to be some of the coolest cats on the road, they deal with these situations every day. Just watch the way people cut them off repeatedly in heavy traffic conditions, many times at done with very little warning or with very little room. They have to allow for this and stay calm, how they do it day after day is amazing to me, I have seen many people cut in front of them and slam on the brakes thinking nothing of the semi driver or his load. When I see a truck that has that 1 million accident free miles written on it, I always give him the thumbs up, while what an accomplishment.

 

[mhstevens]

Just a thought from my point of view: I've spent quite a bit of time investigating vehicle wrecks. We've seen the idiots doing dumb stuff, and they deserve everything they get. What I get upset about is the people doing everything right and getting into a bad situation from someone that isn't paying attention. They don't deserve what happens, however if they've violated a rule of the road, they can be held liable for whatever happens. Overweight? Think of what happens if someone turns in front of you and you broadside them, killing a passenger. Did you have the right-of-way--probably. I will, however, impound your truck and trailer for investigation. If you're overweight and out of manufacturer's specs, then you get the ticket--"careless driving involving death" in Colorado. You most likely will be found guilty of the charge, because I'll have very specific requirements to cite in my investigation. Now defend that in a civil suit from the idiot that cut in front of you.



If you're within specs, no ticket, no charge.



I bought an 04 3500 w/auto and 4:10 rear end, although I wanted the 3:73's for economy. My 5vr grosses @ 14,400--the manufacturers specs on the 3:73's would have put me overweight, but with the 4:10's I have an allowable limit of 15,500, so I'm within specs.



Your choice, but its a huge gamble that can cost someone their life and you a life-changing event that you will be paying off for many years to come.



Sorry to preach, but I've seen the results of too many wrecks.

 

[NIsaacs]

mhstevens, I have no doubt that the example you used would be the outcome. However I am one of those people that question the factory tow ratings. I have always said that they seem to change based on the competition, more than any design change. Just step back 10-years and look at a Cummins equiped truck and compare it to todays trucks. To me there is not 10 cents worth of difference as far as towing ability, yet the ratings are several thousand lbs different. Do you think that your truck with 3. 73's would be more unsafe, than the 4. 10's. I can see a startabilty difference, so I can understand the factory rating might change, but from a safety stand point, I can't see the difference.



I will use an example also. If I take a "95" Dodge dually, hook up a 24 foot tandem dually trailer and haul 20,000lbs gross weight, I will be about 3or4 thousand pounds over. But If I hook up a "05" Dodge dually I will be about 3 thousand lbs under. Yet I feel that both trucks will safely do the job. I also say that if I license that "95" for 20,000 lbs I can go anywhere it the United States, and be legal. With your experiance, would I be wrong





"THANKS, NICK"

 

[Turboman]

So to get 2-3000lbs more "legal" towing cap, I just need 4. 10 gears!!! Hell I'll just get really radical and get some 4. 56 or 5. 13 gears, then I can pull that 40' 4 slide fiver and my boat with my 2500!! A TX DOT officer told me " We don't care squat about mfg ratings, we look at REGISTERED GROSS WEIGHT (what you paying with you tags) and then we look at tire ratings". Someone tell me the difference in a 2500 and a 3500 please. Ok 2 tires, same axle same transmission same engine. The rear disc might be a little bigger, one more leaf spring(which is like adding an airbag). I don't see the problem, I have an ebrake, I run good E tires, I keep the trailer brakes up, I DONT RUN 85 MPH!! There I'm sorry I yelled, but at first I used to really get a laugh from some of you guys crying about being 153lbs over this weight or what ever, but now I'm really tire of hear how DANGEROUS and STUPID I am for having to common sense and ability to handle a loaded vehicle. OK flame on!!!