Sobering info if you are not "legal."

[jimnance]

Sorry to jump in so late on this thread.



I have this belief that we are being regulated and legislated to death. Whatever happened to taking personal responsibility and using good judgement?



I question whether the story cited is true, but if it is it is most likely another case of someone using very poor judgement. IMHO, I can pull a 14,000 lb fiver down the road to Glamis more safely with a 3/4 ton CTD than many of the idiots pulling their big fivers with duallys. Why? Because I'm going to take my time, assure the load is correctly balanced, stay in the right lane, and allow ample following distance.



I'm not suggesting that everyone should go out and overload thier 3/4 ton. Rather, I'm suggesting that there is no substitute for good judgement and sensible driving. I'm amazed how fast and erratically some of these toy haulers are driven between L. A. and Glamis. If this story is true, this fellow was probably one of those guys, and may have even had his trailer improperly loaded.



I don't subscribe to this doom and gloom you'll go to hell if you run ten lbs overweight. I think a few on this forum have become almost anal about this subject.



OK, I'll stop fanning the flames and just suggest that we all be safe out there!

 

[Dan_69GTX]

TRCM - Yes - as long as you are below the magical limit of 26001lbs - you do NOT need a cdl - even if you have a trailer over the 10,000 lb limit and are hauling personal stuff - non commercial.



Once you hit the 26,001 lb mark - now you are into CDL territory!



Now IF I weighed close to what you are doing - would I stop at scales - no. I am not commercial. If I was over the 26001 lb mark and registered for it - that would make it very difficult to plead ignorance/forgivenss and I would stop at the scales. Especially since I have a CDL license. If I didn't have a CDL license -hmmm - not sure, but probably wouldn't. Once you have a business name on the side - that changes everything!



(For all you folks - I'm only specifying Virginia's laws).

Dan

 

[Otis Calhoun]

Who Knows?

Ok,I will chime in here with my expertise as a Police officer, Motor carrier Officer AND Fatal Crash Reconstructionist.



In the State of Michigan, we are an axle weight state. This means that in commercial vehicle overweights, we measure AXLE weights, not Gross weight. It is very possible, and happens, to get an overweight ticket and be under the gross Legal weight. Attorneys like to cry the "Mis-load" to get out of the big $$$ Overweight fines, but it all falls back to AXLE weight period.



Now, with the right combination of axles, tires, axle spacing and registered elected weight, an 11 axle semi Can legally scale up to 164,000-169,000 lbs



A standard single axle dump truck with a single dual wheel axle, with no other axle within 9 ft, can weigh up to 20,000 lbs on that single axle using bridge formula weights. if that is exceeded, it goes back to Normal loading which is 18,000 lbs.



Now, tire ratings get 700 lbs per inch of width IE: 10" wide tire can carry 7000 lbs, up to the previously listed max weight. axles in series (distance between center is more than 3 and less than 9 ft get 13,000 per axle, UNLESS it is a tandem assembly (two axles with a common suspension) then they can carry 16,000 per axle. AGAIN this is mainly for semi's as if you put 18,000 on the dually rear axle, you have issues.



For small trucks, they MAY be within the state AXLE weight limits, BUT, the exceed the MFG GAWR (Gross Axle weight rating) or GVWR or GCWR. the truck can be ordered parked and off loaded as it is then an "Unsafe vehicle on the roadway"



In a traffic crash that results in a fatality or possible fatality, we impound all vehicles involved, INCLUDING, their contents. Depending on the crash, we may or may not weigh the vehicles to get their ACTUAL weights, plus try and get the occupant weights as well.



As for fault, if little Suzy or Little Billy happen to blow a red light and smash into you and they die, they will still be at fault, BUT your vehicle WILL be inspected and ANY defect or illegal combination, weights, worn brakes, vision obstruction (you know, the air fresheners on the rear view mirror) will all be noted and documented. The entire report is turned over to the County Prosecutor for review and charges. Even if not charged criminally, you could be held civilly liable.



Now, here is a little math for you all to consider, next time you overload, or consider overloading.



A little formula for Kinetic Energy

KE=1/2MV2 (KE=1/2 x M x V Squared)

M= Mass

V= velocity (feet per second)



Just for arguments, I will use MY trucks GVWR and my Trailers GVWR and combine them (9900 + 14,000 = 23,900)

According to Dodge, I can tow 14,000 lbs, BUT my GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is only 21,000 lbs the way my truck is equipped.



SO to get Mass we use this formula

(M= weight of object / g)

so (M= 21,000 lbs divided by g (g is a constant - Gravity - 32. 2)

so M=21,000/32. 2

M=652. 17



V= Velocity

Velocity is feet per second, converted from MPH

V=MPH x 1. 47 (MPH= Velocity Devided by 1. 47)

SO for this example we will use 60 mph as our base.



V= 60 x 1. 47

V = 88 FPS



So



KE = 1/2 times mass (652. 17) times Velocity squared 88 Squared (7744)



KE = 1/2 x 652. 17 x 7744



KE = . 5 x 652. 17 x 7744



KE = 2,525,252. 24 ft/lbs of energy



So basically when you are running 60 mph in your ram loaded at 21,000 lbs gross, you have the equivilent amount of energy it would require to lift a 2,525,252. 24 lb item 1 foot.



Now, take that semi loaded in Michigan at 160,000 lbs gross and it carries 19,239,735. 68 ft/lbs of energy.

Just something to think about next time you are crisng down the highway.



The standard "Over the road" tractor/trailer is grossing around 80,000 lbs OR

9,619,867. 84 ft/lbs of kinetic energy at 60 mph



You can also think about that at 60 mph, you are travelling 88 feet per secong AND that the average person has a perception/reaction time of 1. 5 seconds which means you just went 132 feet before you realized that there was a danger and reacted to it IE: braking or swerving

I also live in Michigan. I see a lot of 3 -4 car wedges hauling some pretty big pickups and cars with a 3500 Ram. I used to haul a 7 car in a FLD 120 in 48 states. But iv never seen or heard of a 3-4 wedge getting popped or even warned about being overweight. Not even in the peoples republic of california . I live near a dealer car auction and as far as I can tell the weight issue isnt being enforced. Im not saying it doesnt exist . Im saying its not ethical for the law to only be applied after someone is killed. It appears that even pulling a 2 car enclosed trailer could exceed GCVW. Just out of curiosity is there such a thing as a legal truck? ( class8)

 

[Otis Calhoun]

I like that truck . what do you tow with it?

 

[Mhannink]

what i don't get is my mom has a dodge 3500 dually 94 stick and the only thing any chp officer cop truck driver pretty much anyone is its a class a restricted insurance knows whats going on and has advised her on different things to get for coverage they know the gvw and all that and what shes hauling course i guess they don't consider 6 horses to be heavy but they are and theres all the show stuff in the peak of the trailer its so over loaded that we put helper springs right out of the factory and now at 191000 miles the springs have gone flat theres dings in the exhaust from the axel hitting it on bumps shes never had any problems casue she drives fairly slow but still if its over loaded why would the everyone say its all right then and yes she has asked chp about it also the reason its a class a is for leght not weight

 

[hasselbach]

The airbags just level out the over weight load, and perhaps improve the ride. The over weight load is still on the tires, axles, frame, and BRAKES. Also the drive train is only engineered to pull so much. Air bags are usually a RV dealer's way of justifying that huge trailer he is trying to sell someone. I have really ticked off a few salesmen to the point that they have walked off when I informed them that if I needed air bags to level my truck, then their RV was too heavy and would be unsafe behind my truck... ... ...

Air bags actually make it worse by taking weight off the front end of the truck. The driver should have had a load leveling hitch whereas the weight was distributed equally.

 

[ProspectorTim]

I agree with the posts above for a bumper-pull trailer - use a weight distributing hitch.



For a 5th wheel trailer, Air Bags are a good option.



IMHO