Social Security

[RustyJC]

I certainly hope that no one expects to live solely on Social Security when they retire. However, consider this question from my perspective. I'll soon be 56 years old. I have paid into the Social Security system for over 35 years. At this point, Social Security is projected to provide about 25% of my retirement income.



Are you suggesting summarily doing away with the Social Security system and leaving those of us who have paid into it for decades with nothing? If any political party tries that, they will find out in a hurry why Tip O'Neill called Social Security "The third rail of American politics - you touch it, and you die!"



Rusty

 

[loncray]

Well, I'm 37 (part of Gen X) and I don't expect to collect a dime of Social Security. The baby boomers won't let the system be touched so long as they're the ones retiring. They're a big group of people with a lot of political power. 'Bout the time I'm ready to retire, the baby boomlet (Gen Y) will have gotten old enough to pay SS taxes, and won't like it. Since there's going to be a lot more of them than of Gen X, they'll be able to get the entire system done away with so they can save tax money. Meantime, Gen X will have gotten shafted coming and going - we'll have paid a bunch of taxes in and get nothing back out. Privatization isn't the answer - too many folks will cry everytime the stock market takes a dip and all their money becomes Socially Insecure. The only way my generation is going to get anything is to kill the system right now - and there's too many people retiring to let that happen.

 

[CFAR]

Do away with Social Insecurity? No, I don't think that is the solution.

But I think that we should let people slowly move away a portion of their SS contributions into a plan similar to a 401k.

 

[loncray]

And how much money did your 401k make since the bubble burst? Mine's about 50% of what it once was, and it's still not back up to the level of the money I started with. No, the point of Social Security is that it's SECURE. Privatizing it or dumping it into the stock market takes away all that security.

 

[CFAR]

What!!!! Are you telling me you don't favor choice?



Actually mine is up a wee bit from before the last crash. But that is pure luck, I would like to claim it was my skillful investment strategy but sadly no, just luck.



As far as being secure goes. I think it depends on your view of the Gov. since that is the only thing securing SS. There is no "Trust Fund", the money is spent by the gov and replaced with bonds. The SS system is basically a Ponzi scheme, albeit a legal one.



Oh by the way 20 something years of paying in. With my family medical history, I will be lucky to see 10 years of SS.



As I reach my peak income years, I also reach my peak income tax years, its obscene what the gov (at all levels) take. As far as some are concerned (people in DC) I am filthy rich.

 

[loncray]

No, I favor choice all over the place - but Social Security was set up specifically to save a bunch of folks that had made a bad choice - living in the US during the Depression. I don't trust myself to make the right choices with money that's supposed to help support my retirement. I've got an IRA that I can play in the mutual fund market with, I've got a 401A and a 457 plan, I've even got a regular retirement fund - Social Security shoulda been the bedrock beneath all of those, but it's going to be bankrupt before I ever see a dime.

 

[CFAR]

Unfortunately I see SS as a way of pushing us toward a Socialist type of gov. SS like Welfare is fine as a "Safety Net" but shouldn't be used as a sole means of support. Now we see SS as a catch all for needy people, I'm not against helping people but how far will they push the net.

 

[loncray]

Then why not scrap the current system and set up some sort of needs testing so that only folks in dire straits get it? Of course, we can all see how well that worked with Medicare and Medicaid, so maybe that's not such a great idea.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by CFAR

Now we see SS as a catch all for needy people, I'm not against helping people but how far will they push the net.

Are we confusing two programs (SSI and Social Security) here? SSI pays based on perceived need, regardless of whether or not an individual has ever paid a penny of FICA. In theory, Social Security pays out based on what one has paid in.



Rusty

 

[CFAR]

Well I'm no expert(in anything) but I know personally people who have never paid in a dime receiving SS. Not much mind you but something.



Needs testing will never fly. Why, because of people who pay in for 40 years, they may not need it but they want something back. And as far as that goes they probably deserve it. My worry is that we will have National Health care, free, prescription drugs, free etc. Nothing the gov does is ever free, it costs all of us. Letting people who want too, put some of their SS contributions into the stock market via mutual funds, is only fair. This would also allow the lower income levels to have a higher standard of living at retirement. The gov would deteremine where and how much of your contributions could be invested, thus limiting the risk to some degree. We are talking about 40 or more years here, most downturns in the economy would not affect your retirement.



Far too many people think that SS is their retirement plan. My retirement plan will probably be to work till I retire (permanently). figure 15% of your income goes to SS, 20% to fed income tax, state tax, car tax, property tax, etc ad nauseum. Both parties are addicted. The same way most Americans are addicted to "THINGS", we all want things(also know as materialism)

 

[loncray]

And that's exactly why it all needs to be scrapped - though my generation will get it both ways without vaseline on Social Security.

 

[CFAR]

I'm 40, I think you said you were 37, since I'm much older and wiser(hahahahaha)(just kidding).



I've never been sure in which group I belong BB or X, depending on what you read I fall into both.



Will SS be around when we decide to retire? Will America even exist as an independent country in 25-30 years?



Good questions all.



Anyone have a "Crystal Ball"

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by CFAR

Well I'm no expert(in anything) but I know personally people who have never paid in a dime receiving SS. Not much mind you but something.

Unless they're drawing survivors' benefits, I would think they were on SSI. Even Social Security disability payments are based on what one was paying in when disabled.



Rusty

 

[loncray]

I do believe the Baby Boom ended in 1963, which would make you a Boomer. I'm pretty definitely in Gen X. I do not believe Social Security (or many other govt functions) will exist in 20 - 30 years, but I'm sure we'll be an independent nation then. Dunno why, just that we've survived this long, no matter what the flaming liberals or the far-right nuts try, the nation just soldiers on.