Some Gotta Win - 4.10 vs 3.73?

[CharlesHoward]

Ref the latest TDR and this article on the 3500 evaluation,

Would the Dodge with 4. 10 axle vs the Ford and GM with 3. 73 axles,

would the 4. 10 be advantageous or disadvantageous in the comparision that led to the GM winning?



Was the Dodge with a 4. 10 needed/required to get to the comparable GCWR with the Ford and GM?

 

[MChrist]

A 4. 10 will get you moving quicker, but that's about it. Once moving, you will change gears sooner, thus negating the benefit of the steeper gears. That's for acceleration.
For towing at a steady speed, the combination of rear ratio and trans ratio (and tire diameter) will determine your rpm.

 

[AH64ID]

The Ford uses a lower geared transmission so in the lower gears it has the same overall gearing with 3. 73's as the Ram does with 4. 10's.

4. 10's are mainly for getting a load moving, but at speed they also help. Given the same transmission gear and engine torque (think flat torque curve of a diesel) the 4. 10's will have 10% more torque to the ground than the 3. 73's.

Thou you do run out of gear sooner, but based on the 41 mph the article noted the Ram was not out of rpms, it was out of power and the Chevy's 50 extra hp was enough to propel to 51 mph. If the Ram had 3. 73's it likely would have been a mph or two slower still.

 

[NIsaacs]

So I wonder what the Ford's excuse was, it got beat bad too.



If the Dodge was out of power, it may have been due to the RPM. The 3. 73's might have given it a few mph more. Just speculation I know, but...



Nick

 

[MChrist]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda... they all pull just fine, chevy gets it there quicker, though. Let's give props where it's deserved. The chevy pretty well spanks everybody in these contests.

Hold the hate mail...

 

[rscurtis]

I said many months ago that the new Chevy would be a contender. I wonder how much better the Ram would run if it was using DEF like the other two.



I don't know about running out of RPM- they all develop their HP at the same speed now.

 

[AH64ID]

So I wonder what the Ford's excuse was, it got beat bad too.



If the Dodge was out of power, it may have been due to the RPM. The 3. 73's might have given it a few mph more. Just speculation I know, but...



Nick

More rpm's means more hp, the Ram is 50 hp behind the Chevy and it showed.



Ford is just a Ford, nuf said.

 

[BSeyler]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda... they all pull just fine, chevy gets it there quicker, though. Let's give props where it's deserved. The chevy pretty well spanks everybody in these contests.

Hold the hate mail...

I'd like to see how the spanking is doing after 200,000 miles of hard work. About all the test showed was drag racing with a trailer.

 

[HBarlow]

I'd like to see how the spanking is doing after 200,000 miles of hard work. About all the test showed was drag racing with a trailer.

Yep. Quick acceleration is the least of my concerns.

 

[Slow Six]

So this is one meaningless "test". There is only one truck of each brand and are these trucks truly in "stock" condition? I only towed a couple of thousand miles with my Max Tow with GCW of 27000 lbs. I am very pleased with this trucks towing ability. I am not blowing everything off the road but it maintains a very respectable speed on the long steep pulls. It pulls better than my previous trucks that were turned up. I know that the Cummins will work hard all day long on steep pulls or pushing wind. As mentioned in previous posts this little six banger is built to work. I also like the fact that I do not need to mess around with DEF. Also I love the Longhorn package and all the goodies that come with it. I never even considered the other two trucks when I bought this one. I had enough confidence in this truck that my test drive was the trip home from the dealer and all I can say is "WOW".

 

[cerberusiam]

These comparisons are indicative of drive train setup only. There is no way to adequately compare power potential, TQ potential, towing performance potential, etc, across the brands because of the differences in programming.



TQ management is directly responsible for the differences in most cases. There is 2 sides to that coin though. On one side the short term observed performance is better, on the other side the enhanced performance is taking a toll on the equipment.



What never gets compared or even mentioned is the failure rates compared to service time. A simple tweaking of parameters can put any one of the three at the top while reducing its useful life and TCO. Dodge generally



The fact is more purchases are influenced by performance and luxury. TCO and failures rates are just an also ran.

 

[AH64ID]

If your purely looking at the hp numbers then why not get a Hemi! It has 383 hp, so if you were in the correct gear it could pull the hill faster than the Cummins, but you would be at 5600 rpms and have to stop half way up the grade for fuel, and then would never get going again!

As everyone has pointed out there are more to these trucks that these tests, not that anyone here is biased, but we all realize the benefits to a medium duty motor in a light duty truck, to an I6, and to a long truck life. We don't have to be sold, and Ram owners rarely do.

 

[rrl989]

The Hemi does not have the torque to outpull the Cummins. For diesel power, test drive a Duramax and Cummins back to back, you will feel the difference immediately.

 

[BIGNASTY]

More rpm's means more hp, the Ram is 50 hp behind the Chevy and it showed.



Ford is just a Ford, nuf said.

Not always true with diesel

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Yea, the other two may be quicker, BUT I'm doubting that I'll ever see a sig showing miles like blacksheepdiesel has anywhere in one of their forums!! :-laf



802k and some change on an '01!! Oo.

 

[NIsaacs]

Yup, and GAmes!



Nick

 

[AH64ID]

The Hemi does not have the torque to outpull the Cummins. For diesel power, test drive a Duramax and Cummins back to back, you will feel the difference immediately.

It doesn't have the torque to out accelerate for sure, but if they are aleady at speed the Hemi (at peak hp rpms) can out pull. That's not something that happens very often, as we do a lot more accelearting and speed changing than just maintain speed up a grade.



Torque gets you moving, hp keeps you moving. Which is easily shown with both some gear math, and look at the HPCR power curve. The torque output is nearly flat from 1400-2600, but good luck keeping a load moving at 1400!



A hemi makes 383hp at 5600 rpms, that's 359 ft/lbs of tq. At 42 mph the hemi is in 1st gear (!!!) with 4. 10's. That's 4415 ft/lbs to the rear wheels.



At 41 mph the Cummins was in 3rd at 2600. At 2600 that's about 335 hp, or 675 ft/lbs. In 3rd gear that's 3902 ft/lbs to the wheels.



At that speed the Hemi has more torque (13% more) to the ground, but is screaming and the tran's isn't happy. But in a single test you can see how longevity and driveability aren't factored in.

Not always true with diesel

No, but with HPCR systems it's true (unless your between rated rpm and redline). The change from mechanical to electronic injection allows diesel to build hp all the way to rated rpm.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Probably true I cant contest the statement on this electronic stuff but on the BIG CAM Cummins mine was substantially more HP and It didnt take more RPM to use it. But required Judaical use of the right foot or you would have a melt down on top of the pistons.

 

[CBlack]

I said many months ago that the new Chevy would be a contender. I wonder how much better the Ram would run if it was using DEF like the other two.

I don't think DEF has anything to do with it. I think it's the transmission. The Allison puts the power to the ground, period.



The 68rfe has a lot to be desired.

 

[AH64ID]

Unless it stays unlocked a lot of the time for more torque the ratio's of the Allison 1000 leave a lot to be desired. I haven't driven one in years, and never towed heavy with one, but the ratio's aren't all designed for towing. 3rd and 4th are the same as the 68RFE, and 2nd is close, but 1st, 5th, and 6th are geared towards lighter loads. The design is more similar to the Aisin in the C&C, which is a better heavy duty use design and may get more power thru.