Sorry dealer, Citrus Dode

[Ol'TrailDog]

I made an appointment for next week to take my truck in for ball joints, door weather strip, dome light, and a speaker buzz.



On this thread I've seen two specs for the ball joints, 0. 06 and . 09. Does anyone know which is correct?

 

[rrl989]

Thanks for the pricing information education, but, I still believe the dealers are happier charging a customer, over DC.



Brought my truck in for whine only in OD, wrote and told service manager to eliminate the OD thrust bearing (just like it says in the service manual)



End result, $1900 - thrust bearing $49 - "Diagnosis and Repair" is a good way to charge whatever they choose. DC would never have paid them that kind of money for that repair !!



I'm sure everyone has a story.



Ron

 

[DPKetchum]

Then when THEY qutoted you that you should have asked the breakdown and were and how prices were acheived. I priced a Mazda reman at RICK CASE Mazda for a lady friend and was quoted $2100 for trans and 8HOURS r&R at $75. 00 per hour on a Mazda ACCENT. Little 1. 5 litere front wheel drive do do box. I then called the service manager and asked how long he'd been in auto repair etc. Told him nicely that 8 hours is not what iit pays to R&R a Cadallic Northstar trans. That I bet FLAT RATE was more in the 3 hour range. That a GOOD tech would do 3 of those cracker boxes in a day and did he want a JOB to do or not. He finally admitted that it was WAY high and asked if I'd go 4 hours. I said fine and now transfer me to the PARTS manager. I asked HIM if he'd like to make $200. 00 on a part he didn't stock and only had to order and slide across the floor to a tech. He admitted he did. He sold that factory reman for $1540. I sold G. M. SERTA(reman)autos all week for years that way. But The point is ASK were pricing is made up and HOW you come to THOSE numbers FIRST. Its like buying a NEW truck. Warranty FLAT RATE TIMES 130% is CHILTON OR MOTORS FLAT RATE. That is the guidlines. That is the only way to rate whats fair.

 

[rrl989]

I don't think most people have your bargaining skills or industry knowledge. Even so, I doubt they would work with most service managers in my area. Getting an advance "quote" is not possible on a "whine" since they have to "diagnose" it, thats why we sign the standard invoice authorizing the repair at $xxx/hr. . Believe me, I know I got screwed, I argued the point, paid, and then left. I now take my $money$ elsewhere.



Ron

 

[DPKetchum]

Diagnois is usually $60. 00 to $120. 00. if they happen to open it up ask what labor is and were the figure comes from. I do the same thing with my doctor,vets,dozer work etc. Whats the differance. Its MY money and I want to know what,when,why etc.

 

[mopars1]

On this thread I've seen two specs for the ball joints, 0. 06 and . 09. Does anyone know which is correct?

In the '04 and '05 service manuals the specs are . 060" for the upper ball joints and . 090" for the lower ball joints. This is measured in two directions and added together to arrive at the amount of play.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Looking for a 12v 4x4 swap, any takers? I owe 20k on this truck and I'm looking for a swap on the difference.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Well, took my truck to the dealer for the final warranty check-up (34,500 miles). They will replace the speaker, do the TSB on the door weather strip, and got the dome light to work (was just a bulb, which I had checked and didn't see anything wrong. Of course, this made me feel real bright, so to speak).



Said the ball joints were fine and said the truck steers fine (which it does - what an improvement over the 2Gs ). Anyway, since I had noticed play in the ball joints when I rotated tires I though I would check it again and then take it to a front-end shop for their opinion. Since I don't have a mag base dial indicator handy, I just used a story pole.



With the tire off, I marked the free hanging position at the ball joint (Iused the flat metal tab which holds the brake line because it is at the ball joint and easy to mark), and then lifted the hub with a 2x4 lever under the hub and marked the amount of play. I have the same amount of play at both wheels and it is less than 1/16", more like 1/32'.



According to my calculations, 1/16" is 0. 0625". Therefore, I have concluded that, according to my primitive methods, my ball joints are indeed with in spec. Therefore, everything is fine and drive on!



Any comments? Is this how they do it in West Virginia?

 

[DWMeyer]

Being that this is a Dodge(Ford is even worse I went from a nightmare 05 F250 to the Cummins) and that I have read very few positive comments about DC customer service so I will do this: Let the dealer do the diagnostic and if there are more robust aftermarket parts available then I will leave and go have them installed somewhere else. Sure not everyone can do this but might as well take advantage of DC and the diagnostic equipment because they will sure work you over like a "borrowed mule" if they get the chance!



Learned the hard way about trusting people within the automotive industry---probably as a group the most untrustworthy group of vermin that exist on the planet with the exception of a few of the terrorist groups.

 

[DPKetchum]

I tell you over the last 20 years plus the auto group as a whole are MUCH improved over previous years and much more willing to go at least to the standard if not a little extra compared to other products and major companys my wife and deal with. Each dealer is a independent and GOOD techs have been hard to train,fine,retain for many years. But as a whole compared to the late 70s and earlier much much improved. There was NO such thing as buy backs,dsb hearings,lemon law,7/70,3/36/7/100 warrantys. It was 12/12 and most of the time it wasn't 13k and 12 and we'll jump in there. After 12/12 it was DONE. I remember folkes buying new vehicles and the trans failing in the first FEW DAYS and being told We'll get to it in a week or so. Hand you another vehicle NO WAY. Used was even worse. My family use to drop off vehicles for warranty work and take a cab/bus home and wait for a phone call. I've taken 5k vehicles into a dealer I didn't buy it at(job change across town)and have been told in the service lane ITS NOT FROM HERE,LEAVE in no uncertain terms. called a G. M. rep about this and he said We'll kinda old fashioned but in reality nothing I can do about that! I find other companys I deal wth as a whole have some TERRIBLE customer no service. Home Depot for one and many others. Just bought a new GATEWAY computer. NO 1800 numbers,short hours of assistance and some computer programs are warranty at $29. 00 bucks per call. Things could be worse a LOT worse in the auto industary.

 

[DWMeyer]

What is sad about what you stated is that without Toyota, Honda, and Nissan we would still be seeing the same old garbage! Competition forces change and if Toyota comes out with a real HD Truck with a HD Diesel it will put the big 3 WAY BEHIND the curve! I would buy one in a heartbeat as I bet most here would!

 

[rbattelle]

Competition forces change and if Toyota comes out with a real HD Truck with a HD Diesel it will put the big 3 WAY BEHIND the curve!

By that logic, the Tundra should have closed out the market on Ford, Chevy, and Dodge 1/2 ton trucks a long time ago.



-Ryan

 

[DPKetchum]

When I went to work in a dealer( Datsun store in downtown Atlanta)warranty was 12,500 or 12 months. We got 2 or 3 TSB's a MONTH(compared to HANDFULLS now). Once in a GREAT while we got a PHONE call to take care of a out of warranty concern(like it had 15k on the speedo)instead of the several per day that occurs now. There were NO loaners PERIOD. Not even employees ever,never. No in house rentals. Not unusal DAILY to do a 15k service(plugs,filters,valve adjust,brake check and adjust,lube and oil service,diff service,pack wheel bearings,align,bal. &rotate. Sometimes even a CLUTCH replacement,front brakes and we sold tires through NTW. Had many a 310,280,210 get the WHOLE ball of wax and leave with a good attitude and NEVER ask about why are the brakes and clutch NOT UNDER WARRANTY(15k)cause they KNEW it was over/done/expired etc. Even a ac top off. Just never a issue. In 84/85 the BIG change hit(front wheel drive etc)and the MALLS sprang up. WOW hold onto your seat cause we couldn't get a damn thing done with all the moaning,whining,put on hold(repairs)while they called DSM's etc. And MAINTANCE! OMG you think I"M suppose to pay for it! Whole new era. We had a LOT of real high mileage vehicles before mid 80s(to US high was in the 150k range)Now its much higher then that with a FRACTION of the maintance and WARRANTYS are 3 plus times as long. As a ADDED treat we had TECHS quit(a few)and lots threaten to leave IF we could not get the flo back up speed(waiting for answers from Factory,extended service contracts,customers throwing tatrums etc. In another words bring in vehicle,check vehicle,park vehicle,grab another vehicle and start all over again while EVERYONE hashed out WHO was paying to repair whatever and OH by the way HOLD off on the maintance,maybe in a next lifetime. To this day I HATE the term MALL/fastest growing county/world class service and vehicles etc.

 

[WyattEarp]

Something sounds amiss, i mean there tolerances were 0. 60 correct and now there saying there 0. 90 yeah thats sounds like there trying to get away from replacing parts, i seriously doubt there ball joint design has changed so how could they justify a higher spec tolerance if before it was 0. 60.

I would say if said customer has an accident to a faulty Ball joint before warranty is up and said customer was concerned about said ball joints as a safety issue then i would say DC is up creek without paddle, boat or life jacket. But of course this is just my opinion. .

No need to worry about costing a dealer a sale, this high gas price and fuel prices are doing that without anyone's help. :-laf

 

[DWMeyer]

By that logic, the Tundra should have closed out the market on Ford, Chevy, and Dodge 1/2 ton trucks a long time ago.



-Ryan

I owned a Tundra 4x4---IMHO not a real full size. Seats too small for me and the cab is too small as well (forget about towing heavy loads). Fit and finish was exellent-owned it for18 months and it never went back to Toyota. Never had to do anything but change the oil and I put bigger tires and shocks on it but that was it.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Something sounds amiss, i mean there tolerances were 0. 60 correct and now there saying there 0. 90 yeah thats sounds like there trying to get away from replacing parts, i seriously doubt there ball joint design has changed so how could they justify a higher spec tolerance if before it was 0. 60.

I would say if said customer has an accident to a faulty Ball joint before warranty is up and said customer was concerned about said ball joints as a safety issue then i would say DC is up creek without paddle, boat or life jacket. But of course this is just my opinion. .

No need to worry about costing a dealer a sale, this high gas price and fuel prices are doing that without anyone's help. :-laf

I guess we think alike, . 040-. 060 -. 090 or what ever DC chooses to "go with"

is BS, A ball joint was NEVER intended by style use to have an acceptable amount of freeplay! Don't take my word for it check a Chiltons or Motors Manual. This "acceptable" amount of freeplay was adopted for one reason, DC was spending to much $$$ replacing them. They are playing the game of Risk Management. My 03 is within specs (so DC says) but two front end shops have told me the bj's need replacing before they can aline the frontend. American auto makers need another reality check. Let Toyota or Nissan get in the 2500-3500 full size truck market and let see what happens!!!! In Peoria Il the Catapillar plant use to be 10 times the size it is now (which is hugh) , Until Komatsu, Kabelco,etc hit the US.

 

[rbattelle]

A ball joint was NEVER intended by style use to have an acceptable amount of freeplay!

I respectfully disagree. A ball joint with 0. 000" free play would be so expensive (if it could even be manufactured) that it would cost significantly more than the entire truck.



Absolutely no disrespect intended.



-Ryan

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

I respectfully disagree. A ball joint with 0. 000" free play would be so expensive (if it could even be manufactured) that it would cost significantly more than the entire truck.



Absolutely no disrespect intended.



-Ryan

Ok, I assumed by no play you would understand that I didn't mean . 00000000

clearance (the knuckle wouldn't turn!). I meant no visable vertical movement upon checking on a jack and using a pry bar. I would guess in my lifetime as a mechanic that I have replaced aprox. 250-350 ball joints. NEVER Have i dianosed a vehicle with the amount of vertical movement that is in my ball joints did I tell a customer "there within tolerance, it will be just fine like that"

A very reputable tire dealer/manufacturer here in my home town has told me they could not align my front until the ball joints are replaced. This was without me mentioning the ball joint issue! A wise man once told me in 1974 where I was hired as a rookie mechanic( who by the way was a mopar nut his whole life 73 y. o. at the time) And I quote " When you buy a new car, forget where you bought it and fix it yourself"

 

[rbattelle]

I meant no visable vertical movement upon checking on a jack and using a pry bar.

Okay, I think that's a pretty reasonable requirement.



-Ryan

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Just to follow up on my ordeal with DC. On March 4 Citrus dodge in DadeCity Fl. was to make an appointment with the area Rep. It took several phone calls back to the dealership to nail them down on a date that the area rep was going to be there so I could meet and dicuss my truck. Finally a date was set April 11 (no set time),well 4-11-05 came and guess what the rep is a no show! They told me 4-12-05 for sure, guess what? thats right a no show again! I took off two days work for nothing! Now they tell me Friday 4-15-05 for sure!!!!!!!! Now I'm PO'd, I call 1-800 DC spoke to them for over 45 min. best advice they could give me was take it to a differnt dealership, so I did , I made an appointment for thursday 4-14-05 at Plant City motors,

The service rep there seems like a nice guy, he told me he couldn't promise me anything but he would check the same items on my truck and get back to me,. I'll keep you keep you posted with the out come. Customer Satisfaction my (CENSORED) Butt!!!!!!!