Southbend clutch!!

[jwilliams3]

I guess I should have said "a correctly installed dual disc wont effect noise either way".

 

[Tomeygun]

I guess I should have said "a correctly installed dual disc wont effect noise either way".

Makes you wonder if his is installed correctly. I remember a DD I felt that that it was quiet until 1/2 inch the floorboard, then sounds like hammers on the bellhousing... its way very ugly sounding - Something about the fingers hitting something, I cant remember

 

[jwilliams3]

Makes you wonder if his is installed correctly. I remember a DD I felt that that it was quiet until 1/2 inch the floorboard, then sounds like hammers on the bellhousing... its way very ugly sounding - Something about the fingers hitting something, I cant remember

Fingers hitting is not really uncommon with a newer DD. They (clutch) are made thick and eventually wear in and you wont get finger noise anymore.



SNoyes,

Quit worrying and drive!

 

[SNoyes]

OK fellas,



Having all kinds of weird noises coming from this clutch... . I called southbend today and they told me to start in first gear all the time because of a loud shrill squeak sound I get everytime I try a start in second. My question, how many of you with the DD clutch on a six speed are starting in first gear all the time? This seems to be a little wierd, that a stronger clutch now requires me to start in 1st? Same loud noise everytime I downshift as well... Any one with these sounds? Have about 500-600 miles on this clutch now, noise started about 200 miles into the break in period...

 

[jwilliams3]

I start in 1st everytime.

 

[Regcabguy]

1st?

I start in 1st everytime.

Gotta love those 2 mph. upshifts with these G-56's. I've got 2,000 # on my back 24/7 and rarely use 1st. Hills are the exception. If I go with 35's,1st may be a necessity.

 

[oneshotkyle]

i start in both depending on what i am doing. i have never had any sqeeks or shrills out of this clutch. every now and then it gets grabby jerky kinda, then i feed it out real hard in third to take the glaze off and ta da no more grabby jerky. their are tricks to help quiet her down though. first put one extra quart of fluid in the trans. second you can have the dealer idle her up 2 hundred or so rpm's. SNoyes, i am really suprised that you bit the bullet on this clutch without doing any research or asking these questions before hand. just remember you want the power you need to have the right parts to keep things together. i F%$#@* up two single disc clutches in 2500 miles or so before i bought this double disc and have yet to have any problems since i installed it. their are some trade offs in going DD but the advantages are endless.

 

[Regcabguy]

Replacement clutch.

For those of us who won't exceed 350-400 rwhp in the future,is there a quiet,stock like option out there when the stock clutch self-destructs? I've read posts of the single disk SBC's having difficulty getting into 2nd gear at a stop. Is this normal? I would think there would be an enormous market for us G-56 guys out there who simply need a viable replacement setup and are loving the quiet nature of the DMF stock clutch.

 

[Tomeygun]

For those of us who won't exceed 350-400 rwhp in the future,is there a quiet,stock like option out there when the stock clutch self-destructs? I've read posts of the single disk SBC's having difficulty getting into 2nd gear at a stop. Is this normal? I would think there would be an enormous market for us G-56 guys out there who simply need a viable replacement setup and are loving the quiet nature of the DMF stock clutch.

My OFE is well tempered. Heck, holds 500++ hp on the street (no 3rd gear starts though)



If it was not for sledpulling and dragracing I would have stuck with the OFE

 

[Tomeygun]

just got back from TST



The noise? Love it

Holding power? AWESOME

Pedal pressure? 20% over the OFE



The throw is quite short, but still good. I like I can adjust slightly the engagement point...



All and all I think this thing rocks. There something about pulling up and pushing in the clutch and hearing that tell-tale sound - you know you got what it takes...



AND OHH YEAH - vibration???? I swear almost none.

 

[BGarofalo]

I've had my 3850 DD in for a little over a year and I love it. I drive it daily and tow with it frequently. Last week I was towing 16,000 lbs loads of round bales. In the winter I plow with this truck. The clutch is very differant than what you are used to though. Mine makes all sorts of noises. You will notice it rattles differantly after running down the highway or a hard pull. Mine is the unsprung hub type and it rattles according to the harmonics of the engine. Sure, I get dumbfounded looks while im driving through town from the noise but that doesnt bother me.

As far as squealing when you let out the clutch mine does it sometimes not always. As with any ceramic clutch they will do this when you are slipping the clutch. First gear starts will keep this to a minimum.



My advise for potential buyers is the same as others have said.

1. know what you are getting into

2. know what power you are going to be seeking with you truck and get the right clutch the first time

3. The 3850 plate load is a very heavy pedal to push. Your left leg will be stronger than the right. :-laf

 

[jnelson]

OK somebody set me straight. With all these lever action DD 3200-3600 hyd. upgrade blah... . blah... blahh!!!



What do I need?



You can see in my sig what i drive and power. I tow almost everyday (hot shot) and sometimes very heavy. I want to get away from the DMF. My transmission guy (who is darn good) said LuK is coming is coming out with a dual mass conversion. What do I need?



PS. I dont want no rattling and no heavy clutch pedal.

 

[ENafziger]

PS. I dont want no rattling and no heavy clutch pedal. <!-- google_ad_section_end --><!-- google_ad_section_end --><!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

I'd suggest you find someone in your area with a double disc and drive it first then. I have the newest sprung hub version SB 3850 DD, and although not nearly as bad as the previous design, there is still some rattling at certain rpm/load conditions. i. e. it seems to be noisier at low rpm's (1000 - 1400), and when backing off the power. The sound is not obnoxious by any means, and I rather like it! But if you're dead set on no rattle, you'd better drive one first. I would think, though, if you drive a diesel, a little rattle wouldn't bother you...

The 3850 definately has a heavy pedal, even with the upgraded hydraulics. Maybe the 3250 would be best for you. Call Peter... --Eric

 

[SNoyes]

If you want it to be silent without a heavy pedal pressure you may not want to go with the DD setup. For an update, I am currently pulling the DD I have in their now and putting a new DD clutch in. Something with this clutch didn't seem right... .

 

[jnelson]

SB suggested the Con FE with the hydraulic upgrade. I will drive this truck for some 350-450,000 miles. I want to make sure that when I spend $1,500 to $2,000 I am getting what I need.



I am fixing to make my 10th payment and I got 90,000 miles. All of yall's knowledge of this aftermarket clutch biz is greatly appreciated.



thanx.

 

[SNoyes]

Update for me. .



Finally pulled out my first Southbend DD and put in a replacement Southbend DD. Wow, what a difference. The noise is still there at idle, just much less now (just a little rattle, not as loud as it was before). The noises during shifting are all but gone. Have 1,000 miles on this new clutch and now I know what most guys have been talking about with this clutch. Just a little grabby, but much better drivability. I have no idea what was up with the first one, but this one rocks!!!

 

[RobertP]

Update for me. .



Finally pulled out my first Southbend DD and put in a replacement Southbend DD. Wow, what a difference. The noise is still there at idle, just much less now (just a little rattle, not as loud as it was before). The noises during shifting are all but gone. Have 1,000 miles on this new clutch and now I know what most guys have been talking about with this clutch. Just a little grabby, but much better drivability. I have no idea what was up with the first one, but this one rocks!!!

sweet deal. yeah those new sprung ones really have less rattle. Oo.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Every clutch is a compromise. Three features are involved: torque capacity, driver friendliness, and cost. These features form a sort of “triangle” that also assumes the space available in the bell housing is not increased. The stock LuK clutch is a valid compromise and “spoils” the driver with good drivability and modest cost. When people “uprate” the engine, they expect to be able to hold the increased power without any sacrifices at the other “corners” of the triangle. That won't happen. South Bend does a fantastic job of offering us more torque capacity with moderate cost clutches for what they can do, and the best drivability that can be attained. Clutch torque capacity depends on the coefficient of friction, diameter, number of friction surfaces, and pounds per square inch “squeeze”. This last factor is often reduced to plate load, but that assumes a reasonable amount of surface area is retained.



South Bend uses the best quality, highest coefficient of friction faces they can buy, consistent with acceptable cost, and smoothness of engagement. As you change a facing from organic to brass ceramic or iron feramic, the coefficient of criction is tremendously increased, and the requirement for higher psi may also increase to fully utilize the better material. For example, the psi requirement of Miba brand ceramic is higher than that for an organic facing. The clutch builder will balance the amount of facing (more equals smoother engagement) with resultant psi (higher psi means higher torque capacity). Less of a heavier friction material also keeps the inertia of the disk(s) down for easier shifting. South Bend uses MIBA ceramic and their own proprietary feramic facing because they work very well and are not aggressive in wearing out their corresponding clamping surfaces (pressure plate ring or flywheel).



A double disk clutch greatly increases holding (torque) capacity, but is hard to fit within the stock bell housing. South Bend has done a great job getting this to work in a relatively user-friendly clutch package. Their dual disk clutches stand up to the abuse of high horsepower, sled pulling, and drag racing. However, they will not be as “transparent” to use as their advanced single plate clutches, which remain the best choices for up to about 600 horsepower at the wheels in non-competition usage. I am very happy with my con-Fe clutch. Some folks feel it is a bit too aggressive or grabby. You can get around that by giving the engine a bit of rpm, like when backing up a trailer, so it won't fully engage and can slip some. Unlike organic materials that slip less and less until you say they seem to engage, the feramic actually does engage positively, and can “chatter” if you don't let it engage completely after the period of slipping should be over. South Bend improves the ability to “slip” this clutch with wave plates or marcel behind the disk facing as a cushion, along with the sprung hub. The con-OFE is another compromise with feramic on one side and organic on the other. Smoothness and ability to slip is closer to an all-organic disk, of course, but torque capacity is less than for the full feramic con-FE. The feramic material is quite resistant to damage from slippage. Organic facings have binding resins in their makeup and the resins will boil and decompose at around 400 degrees F. The process is called “glazing” and severely reduces torque capacity and life of the disk. It is analogous to glazing drum brake shoes on a car several decades ago.



In summary, the choice of a clutch is a compromise. You probably want good durability, the best user-friendliness you can get, and cost to be reasonable but “negotiable” in that best value is more important than lowest cost. The jump from single disk to dual disk clutches entails a a big cost penalty and some inevitable reduction in user friendliness. Make the jump if you need to—meaning you race or sled pull regularly, or make so much horsepower (and use it) that no single plate clutch is enough.

 

[jelag]

Joe.....

You might have some miss understandings in your post... . based on the some of the products and services offered by Andy and Peter... I might suggest when you get a minute you get the CD or DVD from Gary Coyle at Perfection Hy Test. Don't get me wrong here ..... I do agree with part of what you have to say but I think the engineers from Perfection can help you understand some of what is going on here..... Sam from Sam's Garage did the DVD and its a good presentation... . I compete with Gary all the time, yet we share information for the betterment of our industry... . I wish I could afford more than the one PE (professional Engineer w/masters and stamp in mechanical) I have available to me... . But I'm just a small guy making a living... . I'm sure that Gary would help supply the technical information you need... . And if you'd wish to talk to an Engineer from Miba one is usually with AMS at APRA or AAPEX in the fall... .

I can say this because we have looked at this market and have moved into another direction... . We have currently started to build our own product with our engineering and technology... . However its for much larger trucks where most of the customers are using stock HP up to 600 HP and 2250 ft lbs of torque..... working every day... .

I do fully agree with your triangle approach that everything is a trade off... and if you tip the triangle one direction you must give up on the other two sides... I often tell customers this is a balance scale as well... We do have some of the same problems... we are working with a 2 plate clutch that has a space designed for it, oh what is it now, 50 years ago... when if you had 300 HP you had a lot... . and we are now asking the same space to support 600 HP and 2250 ft lbs of torque and last 350,000 to 500,000 miles.....

Would love to break bread with you in person when I'm in Vegas for the shows will you be attending this year. (APRA, SEMA, AAPEX)

 

[TAbbott]

Had a 3250 sprung hub 12cb DD clutch installed and the noise from the G-56, particularly in 4th and 5th at low rpms and minimal throttle were not good. Called Peter @ SB and he advised over filling the transmission a quart, which helped some, but not much. Ordered a Fluidampr which I'll install next week, but in the interim I got rid of about half of the harmonic noises just by adding some Lucas fuel conditioner to the fuel. It apparently smoothed out the engine to the point that the noises from the G-56 are much reduced. My wife even noticed the difference and commented on it. It's really pretty acceptable now and a pint of Lucas to a tank, (8 oz to 25 gallons after the initial pint) is pretty cheap to still have the benefits of a clutch that you don't "walk through" just by depressing the accelerator pedal a little...