2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission spline count?

[Bunyan]

Does anyone know how many splines are on the axles of the front dana 60? I've been told 30, 32, and 35. It would be nice to know. Truck is 01 2500 4x4.

 

[SRath]

Dodge Dana 60's are supposed to have 30 to the best of my knowledge. And I sure hope that's right; I bought a 30-spline PowerLok limited slip to install in mine this summer.

 

[JHansen]

Here is, to the best of my knowledge, the spline counts for the inner axle shafts through the years for the front Dana 60's... .

1st gens-from the inception of the open-knuckle D60 through to the end of production in 1993 used 1. 50x35 spline inners.

When the redesign occurred in 1994, in conjunction with the axle disconnect inception the inner axles were reduced to 1. 31x30 spline. :{

When the front ends were reworked again in 2000 (I believe?) with the dual-piston front calipers etc. the axle size was increased to 1. 37x32 spline.

I am not sure what is available for traction-aiding differentials for the newer 32 spline axles-but I do know that you can make your own Power-Lok by replacing the side gears with side gears from a 32 spline D70 Power-Lok. They slide right in place of the originals and the axle shaft is a perfect fit into them. This is the way I went as I had a 30 spline D60 Power-Lok in my collection of stuff-works good for me.

HTH
Jason

 

[SRath]

JHansen,



I would be interested to know if any 1st gen dodge owner has actually ever found 35-spline inner shafts in their stock Dana 60 front axle.



To the best of my knowledge, that is one of the reasons the Chevy Dana 60, though basically identical with the early Dodge, is more desirable. Dodge had 30 spline and Chevy had 35 spline inner shafts. The Chevy hub/bearing and lockout assemblies were better, too.



Chevy's outer shafts were typically upgraded from 30-spline to 35-spline for serious use, including premium Warn hubs. Not much more was needed. Dodges needed more done to them.

 

[JHansen]

Dana replacement part #'s for the Dodge D60 open-knuckle are all 35 spline count-but I have not actually had one in my hand to have a look. I will have a look tonight-if I can find it I have the diff housing from a '78 W300 D60 sitting around that I will measure the side gear splines on... . Dad's '92 will be getting yarded apart again one of these days to install a front Power-Lok into it-he had it down once for kingpins etc. but I did not physically measure the shafts. This is all in regards to open-knuckle applications-closed-knuckle for sure are smaller.

I know the older Dodge D60's are not as desirable because of their external-style locking hubs-but according to this article Pirate4x4. Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
GM and Dodge hubs/bearings etc. are the same-again I will state that I have not actually interchanged them myself but this article pops up time and time again on the 'Net as the front D60 bible.

I will state as a known, having both in my hands, that a '98 D60 is 1. 31x30 spline and an '01 D60 is 1. 37x32 spline.

Jason

 

[Bunyan]

Dana replacement part #'s for the Dodge D60 open-knuckle are all 35 spline count-but I have not actually had one in my hand to have a look. I will have a look tonight-if I can find it I have the diff housing from a '78 W300 D60 sitting around that I will measure the side gear splines on... . Dad's '92 will be getting yarded apart again one of these days to install a front Power-Lok into it-he had it down once for kingpins etc. but I did not physically measure the shafts. This is all in regards to open-knuckle applications-closed-knuckle for sure are smaller.



I know the older Dodge D60's are not as desirable because of their external-style locking hubs-but according to this article Pirate4x4. Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive

GM and Dodge hubs/bearings etc. are the same-again I will state that I have not actually interchanged them myself but this article pops up time and time again on the 'Net as the front D60 bible.



I will state as a known, having both in my hands, that a '98 D60 is 1. 31x30 spline and an '01 D60 is 1. 41x32 spline.



Jason

Thanks for the info. What would be needed to upgrade the 01 D60 to 35 spline other than side spider gears and seals? Could a man do this upgrade without removing the differntial. Is it possible to remove the 32 spline and insert the 35s, while the axle is still under the truck? Thanks again Bunyan

 

[JHansen]

Went down to the shop last night and dug out the carrier from the aforementioned '78 D60 front-it does have 1. 50x35 spline side gears.



bunyan, you are correct in your thought that the side gears in the differential and the seals themselves will have to be changed to upgrade to 35 spline axles. Easiest way to do it is to buy the kit from Dynatrac that gets rid of the unit bearings and the CAD at the same time. I know that EMS makes a kit to replace the unit bearings as well-but I'm not sure if their kit changes out the inner axle shafts as well. The center section would have to be removed from the truck to change the side gears-of course this entails removing the axle shafts etc. but the housing can stay underneath. I wanted to get rid of the CAD as it has caused me nothing but grief-so I replaced the right side axle shafts with a one piece right hand shaft from an '02-and installed seals in the right side axle tube just outboard of the center section similar to the left side. For my usage this should be sufficient-the 35 spline upgrade is definitely stronger but I couldn't justify the cost/benefit ratio... . at some future point I would like to install the Dynatrac/EMS locking hub upgrade and at that time I guess I will make the decision whether I want to upgrade to the larger inner axles.



HTH

Jason

 

[WPeschel]

Thanks for the info. What would be needed to upgrade the 01 D60 to 35 spline other than side spider gears and seals? Could a man do this upgrade without removing the differntial. Is it possible to remove the 32 spline and insert the 35s, while the axle is still under the truck? Thanks again Bunyan

Why do you want 35 spline axles??? Do you wheel hard, and what size tire do you run???

 

[Bunyan]

I'm wanting the one piece on the right side. I've been trying to find a 02 one piece but no luck. I don't need the 35 spline. The only one piece I can find is from EMS and is turned down to 1. 30 which is smaller than factory. Like jhansen said Dynatrac has the 35 spline axle upgrade and will be the strongest. I would rather not spend so much on 35 spline. Is there anyother way to go? My unit bearings are bad so I will be ordering the hub kit from Dynatrac this week. My cad no longer works and I want to do the axle swap while it's all apart. I welcome any help. Thanks Bunyan

 

[JHansen]

If you want, I can give you the Spicer and Chrysler part #'s for the 1 piece '02 axle shaft... . I couldn't source it through Spicer up here, but I was looking for just the inner axle. Chrysler sells it only as the assembly (both inner and outer shaft with the joint) which is fairly pricey but the only way I could get it in the amount of time I needed... .



I will dig up the #'s-but I have to sort through a pile of emails from Spicer as well as find my invoice from the Chrysler dealer. When I get them I will post them here for you.



HTH

Jason

 

[Bunyan]

If you want, I can give you the Spicer and Chrysler part #'s for the 1 piece '02 axle shaft... . I couldn't source it through Spicer up here, but I was looking for just the inner axle. Chrysler sells it only as the assembly (both inner and outer shaft with the joint) which is fairly pricey but the only way I could get it in the amount of time I needed... .



I will dig up the #'s-but I have to sort through a pile of emails from Spicer as well as find my invoice from the Chrysler dealer. When I get them I will post them here for you.



HTH

Jason

That would be great. I tried today to find some #s but to no avail. Can you also get the # for the seal or seals I need. What diameter is the 02 shaft? Is the 02 shaft tapered or is it the same diameter the entire lenght? Where does the new seal mount in the axle housing. Does the seal mount in the original location at the cad housing? I do appreciate your help. I've been trying to get help for some time now. Does your 02 axle work ok? How hard was it to install? Sorry for so many questions but it's good to here info on any project before you begin. Thanks again, Bunyan













.

 

[JHansen]

Spicer #'s for the right-side assembly is 708189. The inner shaft itself is 80178-2 but the Spicer driveline dealer I went through said that wasn't a good #-so I assume they are not selling it separately (?)



I can't find my receipt right now with the Chrysler part # for the assembly-I will keep searching-I might still have the box as well in the shop.



HTH

Jason

 

[Bunyan]

Post when you get time. I was planning on placing my order today, but the bank was closed. If you could get the # by Sunday then I could order Monday.

 

[JHansen]

IIRC the axle shaft is the same diameter tip-to-toe... but I can't remember what that diameter is. I mounted the seals outboard of the carrier just like the left side-I figured this had the best chance of sealing as the '02 shaft has no machined seal surface to use the seal at the CAD. There are 2 caveats-#1 being you have to drill and tap the center section for a vent. I used the aforementioned '78 front D60 I had for a general location and used a right angle air drill to drill the hole. #2 is that the right tube is not machined for a seal like the left side-the surface is not finished and not a common size. The seal that I ended up using is a CR 15204 which fit the axle itself fairly snugly but was loose in the housing. You need some sort of a shim obviously to take up the clearance-this sounds hokey but I used pipeline tape. Oilfield guys will be very familiar with it-others not so much... . think very heavy-duty electrical tape. This stuff is used to keep water etc. off of buried welds on pipelines so it should handle this application-where you're not using the adhesive so much as you are the friction fit between the tube and the seal with the tape in the middle. I would think you could accomplish the friction fit with shim stock-if this route was attempted I would make sure the joint in the shim was at the top-and maybe run a bead of silicone around it to ensure it seals.



To increase my chance of success, and because the seal is only a single-lip, I drove 2 seals in there, 1 behind the other. So far I have around 10000 kilometres on it with temps down below -40C without a drip... . keeping my fingers crossed but i'm not really anticipating issues.



It is so nice not to have to worry about the CAD screwing up-I use my truck for work in every condition from mud to snow, +40C to -40C, and on-call 24/7 for a week at a time. It has to go wherever and whenever-I have been stuck at least twice that I can remember with CAD failures before I went to the Posi-Lok hand cable setup. Even with that, I had an issue with a 5 cent snap ring popping off and letting the CAD stay engaged all the time. This way, I know everything is good. Like I said previously, I would like the locking hub setup-maybe this year if everything goes good.



I will keep looking for the Chrysler part # for that shaft assembly for you.



HTH

Jason

 

[Bunyan]

Sounds maybe like going with the 35 spline would be best for me so all will seal and not need to worry. Not saying yours will fail, but I am ill and will not be getting well. I'm doing this conversion now because the unit bearings need to be replaced and the cad does not work. This is hopefully a one time job. I can not go out and work on the truck or anything else unless planned to the tee. It takes lots of time for me to do any project. Somedays I can get up and do a little around the house and others, can't get out of bed or my chair. This sucks, before getting ill I could do anything at anytime. Thanks to all for the help. I'm not crying, but explaining my situation. Bunyan

 

[JHansen]

I hear what you are saying-my way may not be the best for you. IIRC the Dynatrac kit uses a seal that rides in the CAD housing and the shaft is machined for it. Still a PITA to install-but engineered out.



For the record, I did find the Chrysler part # for the axle shaft assembly. 05086250AA is the part #.



Jason

 

[Bunyan]

Thanks jhansen. I still want to investigate this axle setup. Did you happen to get the diameter or remember about what is was? I have a good relationship with several part houses and we might be able to get a seal to work in the original location. If you don't mind, what did you pay for the axle assembly? If you're not comfortable telling that's ok. If so pm me. Have enjoyed the conversation.

 

[JHansen]

The diameter was around 1. 5"-but the seal surface was machined just inside the splines. There was no wear surface or provision for one where the CAD seal would go-I have heard of others machining the shaft for one there but I don't know if I would go that way myself.

When I bought the shaft the Canadian $ was way out of whack compared to your dollar-and to be honest with you I don't think Chrysler has kept pace with its increase in value. With that said, I think the whole unit was around $400 CDN at the time of purchase-which was around October I believe.

I know that EMS offered a 1 piece axle conversion for the pre '00 trucks-now I see looking on their website here '00+ Dodge 2500/3500 CAD Delete Kit [HC-00D-32-IAK] - $285. 00 : EMS Offroad, When You're Ready For The Next Step that they make one for the '00-up trucks. These guys deal on eBay quite a bit as well. This may be cheaper than buying the replacement axle from Spicer or Dodge and includes the seal and blockoff plate. Something else to think about?

HTH
Jason

 

[Bunyan]

The thing about EMS is the axle is turned down to 1. 30 where it meets the cad seal. This seems to be a bit weak for my future plans of installing a true-trac or power-lok. I still have work to do before making the final decision. This all just happened to fast. I'm not driving the truck much since the left unit bearing is failing. We'll get it figured out before long.

 

[JHansen]

It's not good when things occur so quickly that a guy hasn't had time to make the appropriate plans... . that's basically what happened to me when my unit bearings stacked last time. I wanted to do a hub conversion and the 1 piece axle but wasn't prepared-and I needed my truck back-so I replaced the bearings again and then pulled everything back apart when I did the Power-Lok.



I can't understand why they would neck it down for the seal surface-seems a little difficult to get the seal on there. Plus if they would have sized it up to the OEM CAD outer axle seal size then that wouldn't have to be touched. Is that what Dynatrac has done-or do they require you to pull the carrier and install a seal there?



Jason