SRW 3500 leaf spring pack question....?

[fkovalski]

On my rear leaf springs (see sig) the first 'leaf' from bottom to top when looking at it from underneath looks as if the arc is facing downward. It seems as if it would be more effective if the arc were facing in the upward direction. The 'leaf' that I am refering to is more of a spacer or overload of sorts... it is not actually part of the leaf pack itself.



Does anyone who has a 3500 SRW have this same condition to confirm it for me?



Thanks,

-frank.

 

[MCummings]

Looks can be very decieving.



I think it is perfectly flat. I pulled some off a 2500 and I remember them sitting perfectly flat on the floor. The only "arc" of any mention was that they were fatter in the middle and skinnier on the tips.



Plus the spring rate would be alot higher if they did have any arc, and were flipped. (it would ride similar to a 2nd gen)



Merrick

 

[fkovalski]

Looks can be very decieving.



I think it is perfectly flat. I pulled some off a 2500 and I remember them sitting perfectly flat on the floor. The only "arc" of any mention was that they were fatter in the middle and skinnier on the tips.

Merrick

Yes! It is flat as you describe with the ends being thinner giving the appearance of a downward 'curvature. ' This is how it is on mine just as you describe... . so- it is normal and installed correctly?



Since this "leaf" really does not contact any onther leaf... . is it essentially a 'spacer' of sorts? if so... why the long extensions?

 

[MCummings]

It's about a 1. 5" spacer, untill you get serious about work, then it's a true overload. Get about 5,000 pounds of stuff in the bed, and drive in the sand or dirt, and it will really help with bottoming out, and in the whoops.



If you pull it out, it's about like doing a 2" leveling kit, but hitting curbs, and other big objects doesn't throw you around so much.



If you tow, don't remove it, but if the biggest thing you ever haul is butt, then, yank it out. It doesn't effect highway and daily driving.





Merrick

 

[rbattelle]

YThis is how it is on mine just as you describe... . so- it is normal and installed correctly?



Since this "leaf" really does not contact any onther leaf... . is it essentially a 'spacer' of sorts? if so... why the long extensions?

Yes, it's normal. But it's a lot more than a spacer. I think it lends a "progressive" rate to the rear spring pack. That flat leaf will force the leaves above it into a flatter arc as the pack compresses, which will result in gradually increasing spring force as the load increases.



In that way you get a "soft" ride unloaded without sacrificing load carrying capacity.



-Ryan

 

[fkovalski]

... But it's a lot more than a spacer. ... That flat leaf will force the leaves above it into a flatter arc as the pack compresses, which will result in gradually increasing spring force as the load increases... .

How does it do this? It seems as if this 'leaf' will not contact the spring pack above it no matter how much weight is applied. I could see this work as you describe if it were flipped AND not actual true spacer between it and the spring pack above it.

It's about a 1. 5" spacer, untill you get serious about work, then it's a true overload. Get about 5,000 pounds of stuff in the bed, and drive in the sand or dirt, and it will really help with bottoming out, and in the whoops.

Again, refer to my quiery above. It seems as if a very substantial load would have to put a reverse arc on the leafs before this 'spacer/ leaf' would engage.

... don't remove it, ...

I do not plan on removing it. It wass just an observation when looking at the overload spring on the top of the spring pack. I have questions about adding taller bump stops (in a future thread) and saw this 'leaf' and just wanted to make sure it was installed correctly.

 

[rbattelle]

How does it do this? It seems as if this 'leaf' will not contact the spring pack above it no matter how much weight is applied. I could see this work as you describe if it were flipped AND not actual true spacer between it and the spring pack above it.

Well I can't say I've ever actually observed it acting as an overload, but I almost never haul anything except my (rather small) butt. I was just hypothesizing. The heaviest load I've ever had in the bed was 2000 lb of concrete, but it didn't occur to me at the time to look at the springs.



Maybe someone who regularly hauls a few thousand pounds could snap a picture, then we'd know better.



-Ryan

 

[MCummings]

To answer your question, think about how leaf springs work.



As the spring is "compressed" it is flattened out, as it flattens out, it starts coming into contact with the "overload" more. You may never see the overload come into contact with the spring pack when it is parked, but put some white lithium grease on the overload, and put some weight in the back. Then drive through town and hit a couple of bumps. After your drive there will be grease on your spring packs.



It does take alot of weight to get the Overloads to come into contact with the spring pack. The Overloads aren't really there for constant contact but for stability when driving loaded.





Merrick

 

[fkovalski]

To answer your question, think about how leaf springs work.



As the spring is "compressed" it is flattened out, as it flattens out, it starts coming into contact with the "overload" more. You may never see the overload come into contact with the spring pack when it is parked, but put some white lithium grease on the overload, and put some weight in the back. Then drive through town and hit a couple of bumps. After your drive there will be grease on your spring packs.



It does take alot of weight to get the Overloads to come into contact with the spring pack. The Overloads aren't really there for constant contact but for stability when driving loaded.





Merrick

Absolutly! I agree with you on this about the TOP overload springs. They are engaged only when enough wieght allows them to com into contact with the bupm stops. (is this the overloads that you are refering to in the quoted reply?)



I think Ryan was explaining (and I am still still trying to understand) in the context of the do hicky 'overload/ leaf/ spacer' under the spring pack.



ON EDIT: It seeems to mee that it would take an awful lot of weight for the that 'thing' on the bottom to contact the leaf pack above it. Almost as if the leaf pack itself would have to go into a reverse arc to contact it.

 

[MCummings]

ON EDIT: It seeems to mee that it would take an awful lot of weight for the that 'thing' on the bottom to contact the leaf pack above it. Almost as if the leaf pack itself would have to go into a reverse arc to contact it.

Yes, and Yes.



The "Thing" on bottom was what I was talking about. That's why those are "overloads" and not "helpers".



Merrick

 

[fkovalski]

Yes, and Yes.



The "Thing" on bottom was what I was talking about. That's why those are "overloads" and not "helpers".



Merrick

Thanks for the clarification. I must get my terminology correct:



Overloads on the bottom; Helpers on the top???... (yes?) and it is the 'helpers' that engage the bump stops?



Thank you for the input. Look for my upcomming thread where i will be seeking advice on buying the corect height (taller) bumpstops for my application and needs.

 

[klenger]

Here's a pic of mine taken after I restacked the spacers to the top of the stack.



http://www.klenger.net/dodge/lowering-rear-end/slide05.html

 

[fkovalski]

Here's a pic of mine taken after I restacked the spacers to the top of the stack.



http://www.klenger.net/dodge/lowering-rear-end/slide05.html

Thanks, Ken- that photo does show the overload leaf sorta' tapering in the downward direction as questioned in my original post. With the facrtory spacer removed between it and the spring pack do you notice any difference in the ride? Obviously, it will engage sooner in an overload condition than with it there. I do not have the need to lower my truck, but if having this 'overload' leaf closer to the regular leaf pack would help in load carrying issues, I would consider moving to below the whole assembly much in the same manner as you show but with the spacer below the whole schmee.



ON EDIT:



I mis interpereted my spacer order. The over load is in direct contact with the spring pack w/ 3 spacers below. dis regard my comment above.



However-- there is a spacer between the leafs and the upper helpers. Can this one be moved to below and stacked with the others? or is the leafs and the helpers in contact with each other not a good idea?

 

[cosborne]

Just a quick note... on my new 2500 there are no longer any "helpers" on top of the spring pack (my 98. 5 had them) and with just the weight of my slide-in camper (1560 lbs wet) the springs are pretty flat and the bottom overload is pretty much in contact with the rest of the spring pack. Measured at the ball last night empty I had 20 3/4" with a 2" drop hitch. After loading the slide in I had 16 1/2" at the hitch... ... 1500lbs dropped the truck just over 4" !!!



I see air bags in my future :{ Didn't need them on the 98. 5



This new truck still feels like a toy to me compared with the 98. 5.....

 

[fkovalski]

Just a quick note... on my new 2500 there are no longer any "helpers" on top of the spring pack (my 98. 5 had them) and with just the weight of my slide-in camper (1560 lbs wet) the springs are pretty flat and the bottom overload is pretty much in contact with the rest of the spring pack. .....

I am getting a similar condition as you describe. You are touching on where I want to go with my next question. I may start a new thread to get more exposure, but the gist will be about adding taller bump stops at the end of the helper springs on a 3500. I do not want to go with air bags!



I too have a capmer weighing about the same as yours. I have taken measurements at the points of both ends where the helper springs contact the rubber bumps- both with & without the load.



Energy Suspensions offers a couple of lengths of rubber stops to place at the helper spring ends and I want to solicite advice about heights, at what end , etc. there was an article a couple of TDR issues back, but i would like ssome more input before doing this mod.



My goal is to add the taller stops to engage the helpers sooner with the camper in the bed.

 

[cosborne]

That sounds like a great idea. My friend has an '06 3500 and there is 3 inches from the stock helper bumpstops to the helper leafs, unloaded. I thought about adding the helpers to my 2500 but the brackets are welded on not bolted and there are no existing "spots" for the welds to be added or holes for brackets to be added. I think that increasing the length of the helper stops would work well.



I like the ride in my truck empty, but have read about too many others having issues with the change in the ride after adding air bags, but it looks like if I want to stay level after hooking the boat up I will need to do something... . :{

 

[klenger]

Slide-in campers and 3/4 ton trucks do not work well together. The overload springs that were part of the camper package on the 2nd gen 2500s are the major feature of the 3rd gen 3500 SRW.

 

[cosborne]

Well I had put over 100,000 mi on my last 3/4 with the slide in so if they didn't work well together then ?????



Having just got back from a 600 mile round trip with the slide in and pulling my boat (6500 lbs) I was pleasantly surprised. After all was loaded, the truck sat level and pulled and handled like a dream... ...



I don't think I will need airbags or overloads it turns out..... Oo.

 

[fkovalski]

Well I had put over 100,000 mi on my last 3/4 with the slide in so if they didn't work well together then ?????.

The previous 3/4T w/ camper pkg was more like the current 3500's.

... I don't think I will need airbags or overloads it turns out..... Oo.

That is the benefit of your current setup with the weight that you are hauling. I have the annoying situation of having the bump stops barely touching the helpers with the TC load.

 

[cosborne]

Gotcha. If my camper weighed any more at all... even 1-200 more lbs, I would be adding the airbags tomorrow. My slide in is not nearly as heavy as others I have seen, which is one of the reason we went with it... it's also not nearly as fancy as the big Lance's, etc... .