Stanadyne Performance Formula

[jcarey]

mikepvg, sorry it took so long to post back, but I had to go buy some. I already used what I had. What we use is use the Redline Diesel Fuel Catalyst.



"Lubricates injectors and pumps; reduces engine knocing and nailing; helps prevent fuel system problems; cleans injectors; improves fuel efficiency; treats 20 gallons for cleanup dose 100 gallons for anti-wear and to improve cleanliness and efficiency; improves fuel efficiency up to 5%; boosts Cetane Number 3-7 CN; EPA registered fuel additive. "



I had real bad white smoke and rough startup after cold soak. So bad it sometiimes sounded like the crank was going to snap. I was afraid to start the truck in cold weather for fear of engine damage. Someone mentioned they had the same problem and the dealer said their injectors had buildup on them. So I figured I try the Redline. I had a half a tank left so I tossed a bottle in drove a couple of hundred miles; filled up and tossed another bottle in. After about 2-3 very cold days, startup improved significantly; each day better. I still have some white smoke, but nowhere near as bad as originally, same for the rough idle. The rough idle lasts only a minute or two, and it doesn't seem like the engine is going to blow anymore.



The truck is at the dealer's right now for the white smoke/rough idle at startup problem (already had the TSB done).



We don't tow heavy, so, for us, I think the Redline will make a big difference in keeping the injectors clean. Also, I like the added lubricity now that low-sulphur fuel is here to stay.



Hope this helps,

Jim

 

[LightmanE300]

To those with just a superficial understanding of water separator operation and additives, it would appear that demulsifying is the way to go. I've posted lengthy explanations of the realities of the situation in other threads, and results of my fuel analysis tests. Glad you're liking the Redline Jim, it's definitely the way to go!

 

[mikepvg]

Jim



Thanks for the info. I too have been having the same difficulties with rough idle, stumbling & white smoke. Before I had the PCM reflashed, a cold soak start would literally cover my ENTIRE house. Have not been able to get anything else sorted w/ my dealer, because when I show up it runs clean & smooth & then goes to its bad habits of stumbling & knocking at random. Tech suggested that I quit using Power Service additive (I'm using for anti-gel properties) to see if problems go away. So far on fresh tank of diesel the problem is the same if not worse! Living in the RKY Mtns, I am also not inclined to rely only on the fuel manufacturer to get the anti-gel formula correct during some untimely subfreezing cold snaps.



A few years ago I did some research on the oil properties required for the NV4500 in my 94' & came to the conclusion that Redline MT90 was a superior lubricant & I used it in my NV4500 & my Gear Vendors splitter w/o problems. I actually wrote my findings up into a report & had them printed in Issue 33 2001, titled "The NV4500 & Lube Oils GL-4/GL-5". I did also notice that others on this site have come to the conclusion Redline MTL dramatically helps the NV5600 & at the next oil change for it I will put the Redline in for sure.



Injectors clogging up prematurely is very interesting to say the least. I would think a damaged or defective injector would act up more consistantly. Perhaps this is why I am having random difficulty. I do try to run the engine hard when I can since I'm still breaking it in (only at 7K miles) but due to where I have to travel for business (putt around on the backcountry roads going from client to client) this very well could be a potential problem. I am very encouraged by your postive results from using the Redline fuel catalyst & will ceratainly try that next. Please keep us informed as to your further progress!



Thanks!

Mike

 

[tschwab]

To those with just a superficial understanding of water separator operation and additives, it would appear that demulsifying is the way to go. I've posted lengthy explanations of the realities of the situation in other threads, and results of my fuel analysis tests. Glad you're liking the Redline Jim, it's definitely the way to go!

So I guess your calling Stanadyne, GM, Ford and VW "superficial" as well in their understanding of water separator operation?

 

[jcarey]

LightmanE300, thanks for the time and effort you have put into sharing your knowledge with us. Folks like you make this such a great site. I've read every post I saw that pertained to additives, but never felt comfortable with using them until after reading the more recent threads to which you responded. What you said made sense logically. I'm grateful because unwittingly you may have saved me from some expensive engine/fuel system problems down the road.



mikepvg, I need to start driving harder myself. Problem is that it's just warmed up by the time I get to work. If my wife and I go somewhere we always take the truck, so in those situations (highway) I need to be more aggressive in accelerating hard when I can, say on ramps for example. Or I just may have to throw on a set of twins and start drag racing...



For now though, I'm going to keep my current driving style with the addition of the Redline being the only variable. Well, unless the dealer finds an bad injector. I hoping for a clogged one personally. I'll keep you posted though.



Jim

 

[LightmanE300]

So I guess your calling Stanadyne, GM, Ford and VW "superficial" as well in their understanding of water separator operation?

TSschwab I'm not going to write out the many paragraphs and explain my position again. You can search if you like. In short - on a daily basis with normal fuel, demulsifyers don't work because water separators don't remove water less than 115ppm. Since there is an amount of water (less than 115ppm) in all fuel, it makes more sense to dissolve it/disperse it into the smallest particles possible for the safest pass through the system. Redline, Powerservice, Primrose, Fppf, and others all use solubizers/emulsifiers. Mercedes Benz endorses use of Redline DFC. My MB doesn't even have a water separator - they are very realistic about the performance of water separators.



Jcarey - glad to help.

 

[lschultz]

Anybody else having trouble getting Stanadyne?? I have been waiting for going on three weeks as it is on back order. :{

I ordered me a case of the jugs too and I think this is starting the 4 wk I have been waiting on it and I just used the last up.

 

[WyattEarp]

I agree with Lightman on the gelling issue, i haven't tried to find out if my additive will gel or not, im guessing that when diluted with the fuel, winter blend that it doesn't gel at all. I have seen temps here during the winter at -40 and have not had any problems with gelling fuel... Im guessing that the diesel/Kerosene mix(winter blend) is the reason, I have put a whole container of PS which treat 100 gallons of fuel into my 34 gal tank, for one because of the winter blend fuel and I don't think in anyway overuse would cause a problem in the fuel system



Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[tschwab]

TSschwab I'm not going to write out the many paragraphs and explain my position again. You can search if you like. In short - on a daily basis with normal fuel, demulsifyers don't work because water separators don't remove water less than 115ppm. Since there is an amount of water (less than 115ppm) in all fuel, it makes more sense to dissolve it/disperse it into the smallest particles possible for the safest pass through the system. Redline, Powerservice, Primrose, Fppf, and others all use solubizers/emulsifiers. Mercedes Benz endorses use of Redline DFC. My MB doesn't even have a water separator - they are very realistic about the performance of water separators.



Jcarey - glad to help.

Lightman - I have read your posts and I agree that after I read them, it seemed to make sense, however - Why does GM, Ford & VW ALL reccomend and endorse Stanadyne & Demulsification? What I do not like about the emulsifiers (if you read the article I linked earlier) is that when the tempature drops, the water can fallout of solution & it begins to leave tracks & traces of rust in the FI system and wherever else it passes - YIKES.

 

[Badunit]

you may want to do a search and read my lengthy posts regarding emulsifiers/solubizers versus demulsifiers. I would never run Stanadyne in my truck because it's a demulsifier. Redline is a solubizer, as is Powerservice, Primrose, FPPF, etc. By far, Redline is the way to go if yo'uve got the choice Jcarey.

I've read a bunch of posts, some of them yours. I haven't seen anything proven one way or the other with regards to emulsifiers vs demulsifiers.



If we assume the normal 60ppm or so of water in the fuel is okay then no additive or separator is needed under normal conditions.



If we assume that up to a few hundred ppm of excess water is okay for the injection system then an emulsifier is the way to go. It lets the water pass in small droplets and you don't have to worry about draining the separator.



If we assume that it is best to strip as much excess water as possible out of the fuel then a demulsifier is the way to go. At worst it won't help. At best it helps remove water. I'm in this camp.



Just for a refence point, if the normal water amount is about 60ppm, we're talking about a teaspoon and a half of water per 35 gallons. If those running Stanadyne (a demulsifier) aren't noticing any water when they drain their separators then it isn't doing much to strip this normal amount of water from the fuel; hard to tell how well it works with excess water. I haven't run any yet so I don't know. I guess I'll find out.

 

[LightmanE300]

Badunit - since most fuels have less than 115ppm , using an emulsifier/solubizer just makes that present water go through much more safely. Most of us never run fuel that has more water than that, so an emulsifier is a practical daily solution. In the rare case of a bad tank, it really won't matter what you're running.

 

[jcarey]

Redline update

I mentioned in aprevious post on this thread tht we were having significant cold start issues with our 04. 5. I mean like the crank-was-going-to-come-out-the-side type shaking for for maybe 15 - 30 seconds with belches of smoke, then rough idle and smoke for another couple of minutes. Followed by slighly irregular idle till I dorve off and just forgot about it.



After reading a lot of posts, I came to the conclusion that part of my problem was clogged injectors. (we don't tow and don't drive hard. ) I think that was a major part of the problem.





Thanks to LightmanE300's posts, I decide to try Redline Diesel Fuel Catalyst. With slightly more than 1/2 a tank of fuel, I put a full bottle of Redline in. Then took a highway drive with the wife down through the Shenandoah are of VA.

At about 1/4 tank we stopped at a service area, put in a second bottle; filled up and came back home.



Weather in the morning had been in the teens to single digits at this time. Did not plug the truck in. Let it sit for a day and tried starting it at about 5:15 am, temp about 15 degrees. Much less smoke; didn't feel like I was going to be hit by a flying crank; and engine smoothed out after a about two minutes.



Did some highway trips for another tank, whole bottle of Redline with each fillup. Again didn't use the truck for 3 - 4 days. When I went out, same time - about 5:15am, but 9 degrees, and fired her up. Varoooooom. Verry little smoke; rough idle for about 15 seconds.



Also, mileage before Redline was about 16. 5. Last fillup was 19+ mpg, same kind of driving. That's back to where I was last Summer, but now we're running a WINTER fuel.



Hope this helps anyone with similar problems.

Jim

 

[mikepvg]

Thanks for that reply! I am having very similar issues but prolonged after start. Like all day. Crude but interesting test in the morning: I started the engine & felt the exhaust manifold at each cylinder. Yep... some were DEAD COLD to the skin & others were getting very hot very fast. Therefore, for sure one or more of the injectors are not firing. My mpg dropped on the last 2 tanks from 16 ave to 13 ave. Takes alot of fuel to push an extra piston around!



Been wanting to try that Redline for awhile but no one seems to have around here. Do you know of any place online that it can be ordered?



TIA

Mike

 

[jcarey]

Mike, the only place I've found locally that carries it is AutoZone. I read that Pep Boys did, not sure if they still do.



I did find this web site from which it can be ordered from for $4. 95:



http://www.morethantires.com/catalog/item/1560092/1013477.htm



It's the same price I pay at AutoZone.



I'll do some more looking. If I find a site with a good price, I'll post it back.



Edit:

Found one more place that sells it for $4. 15:



http://www.247-parts.com/item.wws?sku=RLADFC&cookieID=0YJ03AV8I



Jim

 

[Buffalo]

Redline?

Mikepvg,

You can access the Redline website for dealer locations using your zipcode and how far you're willing to drive. RedLineOil.com. This site will tell you the dealers in your area and the particular products they sell. By the way, I have heard from a number of sources, including RedLine, that the "Catalyst" and the "85 Plus" are, for all practical purposes, the same thing.



LightmanE300: Are the RedLine "Catalyst" and the Primrose pretty much the same thing? Do you know what the differences are?

I've owned a Merc. Benz 300-D (1980), for years, and have had two Dodge/Cummins since '91 (91. 5 W-250 & '03, 3500). My mom had a '79 MB 240-D for years,also. Neither of us has ever had a noticeable excess water in fuel problem. Granted, we both live in the desert (Phoenix, AZ). In my situation, I'm more concerned with addressing the lubricity issue, than the water issue. I have never had the "water in fuel light" come on in either of my trucks in fourteen years of ownership.

Would Primrose or RedLine address the lubricity issue better, than the other? Is there another product that would do a better job of addressing lubricity?

Once again, Thank You, for your input.

Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[mikepvg]

The accuracy of Redline's listing is poor. I called everyone on the list for my area. I did find one Pep Boys (an hour away) that carried it, buts its too far away.

 

[mikepvg]

Thanks Jim!



I just ordered a case from 247-parts. I will report back after a few bottles go thru. I will probably send the whole case thru b4 I leave my truck at the dealer for possibly a week (as reported by others for injector tests & replacement). When you use your truck in your line of work, that downtime is unacceptable. Actually running, even though on less than 6 cylinders, is a better option than a week of no pay.



I'm just not sure of the value of the dodge warranty anymore. The tech dummy can't figure out my trucks problem & everyone reports a week or more of downtime to get injectors fixed. What BS... .

 

[jcarey]

Glad I could help, Mike.

 

[Kry226]

Due to the wait for Stanadyne through DIS, I have been forced to use Powerservice for 2 tanks and now Redline for the last tank and a half. I have noticed a big difference between the different additives. While using Powerservice, the only big difference I noticed was that the engine (valve rap) was louder. No noticed difference in power or economy. Since running on the Redline, my truck has started a nasty rough idle, and even surging at idle (fuel filter only has 1800 miles on it, and I fuel at the same high volume truck stop every time). Mileage on the first tank of Redline showed no difference in power or economy, but this last half tank with the Redline has shown poorer economy by at least 2 mpg, the surging is gone but the rough idle remains. It was bad enough that I took the truck to the dealer for diagnosis... no faults found... typical.



I now have a fresh case of Stanadyne from Scheid Diesel, but I still have a little less than half a tank left with the Redline to burn yet. If things smooth out and quiet down with the Stanadyne, then I know which additive I'll run from now on. If they don't, I'll change fuel filters and go from there. Like another poster said above, I am more worried about lubricity than water.

 

[Badunit]

After two months of waiting on my Stanadyne order, I gave up on DIS and cancelled my order. I found a local distributor and bought it there instead.



Here is some more fuel for the emulsifier/demulsifier debate (courtesy of GM). I think they are pretty clear onthe subject as it pertains to their engines:



Bulletin No. : 03-06-04-017



Date: March, 2003



INFORMATION

Subject:

Information on Diesel Fuel Additives



Models:

1994-1996 Chevrolet Chevy G-Van, Sport Van

1994-1999 Chevrolet Suburban, Tahoe, P Chassis

1994-2000 Chevrolet C/K 1500, 2500 Models

1994-2002 Chevrolet C/K 3500 Model

1996-2002 Chevrolet Express

2001-2003 Chevrolet Silverado

1997-2003 Chevrolet F Model (T Series) Medium Duty Tilt Cab

1999-2003 Chevrolet W Series Medium Duty Tilt Cab

2000-2003 Chevrolet WT5500 Model Medium Duty Tilt Cab

2003 Chevrolet 4500, 5500 Series Medium Duty Trucks

1994-1996 GMC G-Van (Rally Wagon, Vandura)

1994-1997 GMC Yukon

1994-1999 GMC Suburban, P Chassis

1994-2000 GMC C/K 1500, 2500 Models

1994-2002 GMC C/K 3500 Model

1996-2002 GMC Savana

2001-2003 GMC Sierra

1997-2003 GMC F Model (T Series) Medium Duty Tilt Cab

1999-2003 GMC W Series Medium Duty Tilt Cab

2000-2003 GMC WT5500 Model Medium Duty Tilt Cab

2003 GMC 4500, 5500 Series Medium Duty Trucks

1997-2003 Isuzu FSR, FTR, FVR Model Medium Duty Tilt Cabs

1999-2003 Isuzu NPR, NQR Model Medium Duty Tilt Cabs

2000-2003 Isuzu FRR Model Medium Duty Tilt Cab

with 6. 5L, 6. 6L, 7. 2L or 7. 8L Diesel Engine (VINs F, P, S, Y, 1, B, 3 - RPOs L65, L49, L56, L57, LB7, LC8, LG4)



The use of diesel fuel additives is not required or recommended for the 6. 5L diesel or the 6. 6L Duramax(R) Diesel engine under normal conditions. The filtering system is designed to block water and contaminants without the use of additives. However, some customers may desire to use fuel additives to improve the characteristics of available diesel fuels.



Water Emulsifiers and Demulsifiers



If the customer desires to use a fuel additive, care must be taken in its selection. There are two common methods that fuel additives use to cope with water in the fuel. One method is through demulsification of water in the fuel. This method causes water particles to combine together to form larger particles, which drop out of suspension. This allows the fuel filter/water separator to separate the water from the fuel as it is designed to. The other method of coping with water in the fuel is through emulsification. This method, often using alcohol as the emulsifier, keeps water particles suspended in the fuel. Emulsification of water in the fuel can allow water to get past the fuel filter/water separator, in most cases causing damage to the fuel system.



Only alcohol free water demulsifiers should be used in General Motors diesel engines. Both *Racor(R) and *Stanadyne(R) diesel fuel additives are alcohol free and utilize water demulsifiers to cope with water in the fuel. Other brands may be available in different areas; be sure that they clearly state that they are alcohol free demulsifiers before use.



*We believe these sources and their products to be reliable. General Motors does not endorse, indicate any preference for or assume any responsibility for the products from these firms or for any such items which may be available from other sources.



COMMON DIESEL FUEL CONCERNS Fuel Waxing/Icing



Fuel distributors blend # 1 and # 2 diesel fuels for seasonal requirements in a particular region. No other blending of fuels is recommended. However, a customer may desire to use a winter fuel additive to prevent fuel waxing or icing during extreme cold snaps. If a winter fuel additive is to be used, it should not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers that may compromise the water removal effectiveness of the fuel filtering system.



Bacteria and Fungi Growth



Bacteria and fungi growth can occur in diesel fuel when there is water present, especially during warmer weather. The best prevention against bacteria and fungi growth is to use clean fuel that is free of water. There are diesel fuel biocides available which are designed to kill bacterial growth in the fuel system. However, the dead bacteria can still cause blockages throughout the fuel system. If bacterial growth is found in the fuel system, the proper method of removal is to flush the fuel system using Service Manual procedures, replace the fuel filter element, and refill the tank with clean diesel fuel. If a customer desires to use a biocide after flushing the fuel system, it should not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers.



Low Cetane Number



The cetane number is one indicator of a diesel fuel's ability to ignite. There are many indicators of overall fuel quality such as cleanliness, specific gravity, volatility, viscosity, detergency, corrosion inhibiting abilities, and lubricity. Increasing the celane number alone is not a fix for poor quality fuel. Additionally, increasing the cetane number beyond the engine's requirements will not increase performance. However, the cetane number of diesel fuel is not always consistent and some customers may desire to use a cetane improver to ensure full performance of their engine. [/B] If such an additive is to be used, it must not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers[/B].



Poor Lubricity



The 6. 5L diesel and the 6. 6L Duramax(R) Diesel engines are designed to operate on today's low sulfur fuel without the use of additives. A fuel additive designed to increase lubricity is not a fix for poor quality or contaminated fuel, but some customers may desire to use a lubricity additive to aid in the longevity of their fuel system components. If such an additive is to be used, it must not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers.



FUEL SOURCE ISSUES



If a vehicle is properly maintained but has fuel contamination issues, consider obtaining fuel from a different source. Purchasing fuel from a high volume fuel retailer increases the chance that the fuel is fresh and of good quality.