Starter/Bellhousing Location

[Slaughter]

Still doing some head scratching about a 4BT in a Scout behind a TH400 or A518/618. The link is gonna be, for the Dodge, adapter plate/transmission from the 6B. The 4bt I am looking at has the starter located on the right side and the bellhousing for the 6B has the cutout for the starter on the left, down low. Is the starter mounting for the 6B auto able to accept the starter from the 4B? I think I'll have the room for it, if it bolts up. The TH400, coming in second, is a bit of a mystery though. I haven't seen one so I can't tell where the start mounts all come together on it. Can TH400 Shorty kit accept a transfer case? Is there a shorty kit for the Dodge transmission and will it accept the transfer case? Also, do the bread truck motor mounts work? The 4B can be a rattler at lower speeds/idle and any suggestions to smooth it out, would be great. Thanks

 

[WM-300]

Sounds like just what I ran into with my conversion. The Cummins/GM flywheel housing mounts the starter on the right side. The Dodge/Cummins mounts the starter on the left. The Cummins/GM starter is NOT interchangeable with the Dodge Flywheel Housing. If you look at the front of the starter, you will see the eccrntic that positions the starter for proper engagement in the ring gear. Even though the Cummins GM Starter will mount on the Dodge Flywheel housing (using 2 bolts only out of the 3 in the housing) the starter drive gear is rotated away fromt he ring gear. It will not engage.



I am using a 4BTA in my 1943 Dodge Carryall. I am using a 1999 Dodge Flywheel Housing, Bell Housing, flywheel, NV-4500 all from a 1999 Dodge with a 6B series engine.



Hope this answered your question, if not hollar at me louder ha ha



WM-300

 

[DKarvwnaris]

stick with the 4bt GM adapter plate the the GM p-30 vans use. They are readily available and came with the 400 in them for autos.

If you want a dodge bellhousing, use a dodge transmission, especially if you want an auto. The dodge first generation cummins used 205 transfer cases behind their autos. This will work behind a 4bt with no issues at all.



I like the shift points of the 400 more myself, but they have trouble taking high power so be careful turning the engine up too far. 6bts will turn them to an aluminum case of shavings in short order, but the 4b or 4bt engines are low power enough to run them wihtout fear of torque issues.

 

[britannic]

You can get the TH400 rebuilt with serious upgrades that'll hold upto 650hp/650ftlbs just fine. The 4L80E (the next gen. TH400 redesign) can also be upgraded to handle high-output, in fact there's guys on The DieselPage that have the 300hp Peninsular Diesel driving the 4L80E without problems. Note: the 4L80E in a conversion, would require an aftermarket PCM.



My TH400 led a very hard military life and then had to put up with my bombed 6. 2L (MHI TE06H Ford 7. 3L turbo, HO high pop injectors, 608cc IP, ram air intake, big exhaust etc. , for the next 50K - with no problems. I installed a tricked out 700R4 (desperately wanted OD for the 4. 56 diffs), which did great, except the TC couldn't handle the torque. Ripping the TC out was the catalyst for my CTD upgrade, because 300HP is about the limit for the 6. 2L unless it has a lake to cool it like the 400hp marine version.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Originally posted by britannic

Note: the 4L80E in a conversion, would require an aftermarket PCM.



My TH400 led a very hard military life and then had to put up with my bombed 6. 2L (MHI TE06H Ford 7. 3L turbo, HO high pop injectors, 608cc IP, ram air intake, big exhaust etc. , for the next 50K - with no problems.



Ripping the TC out was the catalyst for my CTD upgrade, because 300HP is about the limit for the 6. 2L unless it has a lake to cool it like the 400hp marine version. [/B]

The aftermarket PCM's aren't cheap. I tend to go for non electronic types for this reason.



I have seen some guys go a loing time on a 400, but the majority will not take the torque, Mil spec trannys are usually 1 1/4 rated which includes the TC to handle the loads they are subjected to. You would be surprised, most military trucks these days are around the motor pools and civil engineering battalions rather than in the fields. They get neat up from crew abuse more than load abuse.



The TC coming apart is the most common failure I see, along with a few hard parts from hard shifting under load, but then most trannies won't take that.



If you have a source on the 400 transmission's please post it, I have a friend that has been bugging me to repower his ex forestry tahoe with a 4bt. I haven't found a transmission builder I am confident in to agree to do it for him.

 

[britannic]

Try Brad at Transaction Transmissions 888-223-2723. He built my 700R4 and it shifted like a swiss clock, with tricked out guts (corvette servos, oversize boost valves, upgraded clutch packs, increased line pressures etc). they're down in Sun Valley, CA and ship all over the country.



Tell him you spoke to Neil, the high powered military diesel truck nut in Northern California . I didn't install the transmission I got from him for 6 months, but he still honored the warranty over 14 months later, got me a new TC to replace the broken one and rebuilt my 700R4 to be sure it was free of debris and paid for all of the shipping both ways - that's what I call customer service.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Thanks brittanic,

I'll give him a ring this week. I am trying to weasle out of this conversion, but if I can find a good automatic supplier for future use, it might be worth accomodating this repower. Its getting late in the winter for me, I usually don't take on projects after January for fear of it interfering with my sunny weather work.

 

[Slaughter]

So if I go with Dodge...

Auto, I can use the Dodge adapter plate and 47rh transmission with the 4B starter? (pre 96?) I can't seem to figure out if it will all go together. I am sure the Cummins dealer can get the pieces rounded up, but this is kind of an obscure application. Any pn's or further advice from those in the know, would help. I have a line on a CPL 1839 P pumped 4B that is itching to sit in my Scout II. Juicing it up is a main priority as well. Lou Chiu had aroung 165HP and nearly 500 ft. lbs dynoed on his with a 0 plate and new injectors. Any good 47R pointers for the rebuild? TC? As for the transfer case, NP205 seems the way to go, any mystery to linking up the 47RH to a Dodge NP205? Couplers etc? Thanks again... ...

 

[1340]

I've read this thread with interest. I'm planning to swap a 4bt into my '91 Dakota (lifted, with Ford 1 ton diffs). I'm planning to use an A518/618 as I think it will make the swap easier. The A518 was available for early '90's Dakotas so I wouldn't need to make a transmission crossmember and my transfer case should bolt right up. If I'm correct the A518 comes in a large (V10,diesel) and a small (V6,V8) bellhousing pattern. The A618 has the large pattern. That's the pattern I'd need. Then I could use assorted 6bt and Dakota parts to finish up. Have I forgotten anything (besides time and money)?

 

[DKarvwnaris]

The huge # of used dodge cummins parts on the market now made it the only way to go for adapters etc to be honest. I have given up trying to "modify" bellhousing adapters to fit various trannies etc.

If you want 2wd, a complete nv-4500 with all 6bt adapters will fit right onto a 4bt.

If you want 4wd left hand output or right hand output, the only thing you need to do is different is put either a dodge 205 transfer case or a NP dhd 241 behind a 4wd nv-4500. It is only a spline coupler that's dfferent n parts. Stickl to the Dodge starters, they are getting cheaper to buy and can be found just about anywhere these days.

The 4bt starters are only good if you stick to the GM adapter plate assembly and run either a GM auto or manual transmission. I usually only do this when the GM truck is already setup with a 4pd in it or it is an automatic and we need to keep it GM Auto for whatever reason.

I have an adapter assembly for a 4bt to GM manual in the bed of truck right now. I even have a 465 4speed I will sell with it. If this works for you, let me know. The clutch is even good in it. I am going to a NV-4500 for my next repower so this is most likely going to end up on Ebay. Parts are: GM Bellhousing adapter, GM flywheel, Clutch, GM application starter, GM Bellhousing, and 2wd transmission. I'll probably post it to Ebay in April if nobody here makes an offer on it.

 

[Steve Graham]

I have a 4BT sitting in a frame with a 93 Dodge automatic behind it and all of the 94 dodge front accessories up front. PS it also has an AC compressor attached to keeps us cool. I used a 93 Dodge starter motor, the 94's will not fit on a 93 adapter plate. You have to use the Dodge starter motor. Have fun with your installation.

Steve