2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Starter & Dash Lights

[Bob Cochran]

On the way home from Saint George UT Monday stopped at Kanab UT I am pulling my 5er. Monday morning got ready to leave for Flagstaff AZ and would not start. :{ Called Roadside service and jump started and on my way. Oo. That night on the way home to the Flagstaff KOA from dinner the dash lights went out. As I was driving back to Concho AZ in the daylight decided to not doing anything about it. It was dark and rainy in Flagstaff and afraid of the dark. Today I checked and not only the dash lights out; the parking lights, marker lights and taillights out as well. I found the quad light fuse blown in the PDC replaced ti fixed the light problem. I went to start truck and it won't start again!!!:{ I load checked the batteries, checked starter fuse, starter relay and all tested good. I have removed the starter(that top bolt is a pain) and just ordered new contacts and plunger for the starter selanoid and hope that fixes the starter problem. :-laf Now I will be going through all my connections and grounds for the trailer, etc. to see if I can prevent the fuse from blowing again. Is it only coincidence that the quad fuse, starter and it being rainy all happened at the same time? Will let you know if Larry B's contacts fixes the starter!!!

 

[Bob Cochran]

UPDATE - after starter removal tested starter on bench and it worked. Did not want to take chances so put in new plunger and contacts from Larry B. My contacts was surprisingly good actually. One contact was worn about half way through and other was only slightly pitted. Plunger contacts was pitted and black but not major. Probably could have cleaned up the plunger contact and reversed sides with contacts to go for a while longer. Glad I did change to the newer heavier duty contacts though. Truck starts good and has several times with out fail so I guess it was the contacts.

 

[Bob Cochran]

SECOND UPDATE- I had lots of starts no problem (I thought it was solenoid contact problem) thought was fixed. Fact day before yesterday morning it would not start then it did that afternoon. Yesterday it started multiple times during the day then this morning no start and at this point still not starting. Well if I got to take the starter out again I am getting good practice removing that top starter bolt!!! I suppose it can be the starter itself hanging up will jack truck and see if I get voltage to starter when key turned on( I kinda hope it will not start working again makes things hard to troubleshoot). If I do I will take a hammer to it and see if I can get it to spin. If that is it will changing brushes fix this or is a new starter in order? If I don't have voltage to starter there is really 2 other things it can be. Clutch switch, has anyone by-passed one before if so how did you do it? The other item is I put in a start disable switch a LONG time ago and hardly ever use it so will take it out of the system. Am I forgetting to check anything if so what and how to check? This starter problems is just not going away easy!!!

Thanks for any help.

 

[ttbird]

Just to mention it. I've not heard you say anything about the fuel shut off solenoid. If it's sticking or not working will kept the starter from working. Next time it won't start, pop the hood and pull the solenoid up try to start and if the starter works then on to the next maintenance thing. Relay, fusible link, or fuel shut off solenoid.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I would check out clutch switch and replace if have to (you can check at switch or starter relay). I would check out your starter disable switch and make sure it is not causing any problems.

 

[Thomas]

. . . Clutch switch, has anyone by-passed one before if so how did you do it? The other item is I put in a start disable switch a LONG time ago and hardly ever use it so will take it out of the system. Am I forgetting to check anything if so what and how to check? . . .

A couple of TSB's to be aware of but likely not your problem:

• http://dodgeram. info/tsb/2000/08-01-00.htm
• http://dodgeram. info/tsb/2000/Sa_00-01.htm

It's possible to bypass the Clutch Pedal Position Switch up under the dash where the clutch pedal linkage goes through the firewall. You should be able to unplug the switch and jump the two wires. If that's not possible, remove a bit of insulation and short the two wires to the switch.

An open Clutch Pedal Position Switch and defective contacts in the ignition switch will appear the same—turn the key and you will get nothing. Are you getting any clicking sounds with the no starts?

PM me with an email address and I'll reply with a wiring diagram of your starting system.

. . . I've not heard you say anything about the fuel shut off solenoid. . .

There is no fuel shut off solenoid on the OP's 2001 Ram

 

[Bob Cochran]

Thanks Thomas was going to say I have no fuel shut off solenoid. Thanks for the offer but I have the service manuals and schematics. Glad I got some input here I thought for awhile I was talking to myself. Just kidding!!!!:-laf



Ok here is what happened today. I checked for voltage at the starter when key turned to start, nothing. Should have done this first before putting in Larry B's new contacts and plunger. Oh well, they need changed anyway right; lots of starts in 120,000. Checked same thing at in the PDC with starter relay removed, nothing. Checked for voltage at the clutch switch when trying to start, nothing. Took covers off steering column and checked for voltage on output of ignition, VOLTAGE!!!! Oo. Hey wait a minute nothing between ignition switch and clutch switch according to schematics. Ah contrary on my truck there is. I found some butt connectors with something wired in series!! I tracked down the wires to a module wire tied behind dash on left sided right above the flashing LED/valet switch. The wire that was butt connected between the ignition and clutch switch plugs into it. Unplugged and jumper an lo and behold it started!!! Lot of wires going in and out of this module I think it controls what Dodge calls vehicle security system. This thing looks like it was dealer installed and shoddy at best!! #@$%! The one that disables the engine start until you press the remote door unlock key fob. Left it jumper and put everything back together. I am not sure if an external input to that module prevented the start or the module went bad. I don't think any external input would do damage if I let the truck start. I did take out the disable toggle switch I had wired in along with the Turbo Life Saver from Geno's. Fact I took the whole thing out and will have to do like a lot of guys and sit in truck and let turbo cool down if I think it needs it. It just seemed easier to remove than try and trouble shoot to see if it was causing my problem.



So it starts now lets hope it keeps starting. Now I don't have to push the key fob unlock to start. Thanks for the help I really do appreciate it. Oo.

 

[Thomas]

Sounds as though you found it. It's bad enough trying to remember how I wired something I've added.

I don't think you wasted your time on the starter contacts. I replaced mine at about the same mileage and was glad I was doing it at home rather than on the road.

Good luck!

 

[Bob Cochran]

Thomas - I sure hope I found it. I looked all through the schematics today and it just does not show the device that is connected I talked about. It has a lot of small gauge signal wires and plugs in it as well as the heavier wire and plug wired in series between ignition switch and clutch switch. If you read about the vehicle security stuff in the manual it talks about the flashing LED in the overhead counsel where mine is under the dash left of the steering wheel. From stuff like this I think it was dealer added!!!! It sure looks like it from the way it was wired in. I will let you know if the thing starts acting up again but I am hopeful it will not. Your right I needed the new contacts anyway it was not a waste of $'s at all. For sure this happening in my garage and not on the road in a parking lot someplace or rest area is a PLUS!!!

 

[Missouri Mule]

Bob you won't find any power at the clutch switch it sends ground to female connector at starter relay. You have a ground wire coming into switch and when clutch is depressed it continues the ground.

 

[Bob Cochran]

Mule - Not to be argumentative but I read your post and am sitting here looking at the scheme for this circuit and from what I found when testing. A yellow wire exits th ignition switch terminal 1 and testing when switch turned to the start position does give you 12 volts. This yellow wire goes directly to the clutch switch(except mine as I said above) which is merely a switch in series between ignition switch and Starter relay in the PDC and there is 12 volts on the switch when ignition turned to start. It exits the clutch switch via a yellow wire with red tracer to terminal 86 of the starter relay(operating coil) exits starter relay coil terminal 85 via a black with white tracer to and going through several plugs etc. ultimately goes Data Link Connector terminal 5 and Power Control Module terminals 31 and 32 which is shown as ground thus completing the start relay coil and closing the starter relay contacts I am guessing the ground is made on what ever is required by the PCM to decide. Note this circuit is not fused that I can tell. Once the starter relay coil closes its contacts terminals 30 to 87 these puts battery positive through it to the starter solenoid. It is a red wire from battery to 30 amp fuse in PDC position 9 out of that fuse on yellow wire to starter relay in PDC terminal 30 out terminal 87 brown wire to starter solenoid.

Sorry for long description but I did not want people more confused than is necessary. I am kinda sleepy at the moment so hope I got this right I think so.

Mule - you are right in one respect the one side of the clutch switch is ground and the other is 12 volt. So both are there at the clutch switch.

So far everything is still working!!!!!

 

[Missouri Mule]

Bob, your right I looked at my 96 service manual again (haven't read on the starting sequence for a while).

You are correct there is power going to the clutch switch (neutral safety switch grounds starter relay).



In the service manual there is a power wire going from igniton switch and when the clutch is pushed down it closes switch allowing power to continue on to starter relay thru the second wire.

So when you push the clutch down you should have power in both wires.

 

[Bob Cochran]

Mule-No problem I just wanted to make sure no one got confused about this. So to time to explain the circuit. I was so dang tired at the time though was afraid I would goof it up!!!!

Anyway at this point starting still working.