starter kicking out while cranking

[jaynes]

This only happens in cold weather... specifically when it drops below 15 or 20 degrees. The first attempt in the morning, the starter doesn't even engage... all the way. It engages halfway and just grinds. The second time, it won't stay engaged long enough to start the engine... it turns it over about 5-6 times and kicks out halfway and grinds on the ring gear. Usually the third time there has been enough heat built up to start on the 3rd or 4th revolution. But i tell ya what, when it gets below 10 degrees, that thing can be very frustrating. Usually have to try it like 5 or 6 times!! Does anyone know why it does this, and is there a cure, or do I need another new starter... this one is only 2 years old, i bought it reman from Autozone... that was my first mistake, I know, but I was young and stupid. And ideas? Thanks!



jaynes

 

[BCaldwell]

jaynes



hi there just a quick thought check the battery condition etc to make sure you have lots of juice to spin the engine over. Next Larry B contacts.



Bill

 

[paccool]

Like Bill said, the contact kit will probably take care of the problem. (also may not since the starter is only 2 years old) You will probably find a pile of crud in the stareter when you take it apart that may be preventing the starter from working properly. The other thing may be since it happens in the cold weather, the battery may be getting tired and the heater is pulling everything the battery can put out. Make sure the battery connections are clean and the battery fully charged.

 

[jaynes]

I know the battery is fully charged because once it stays engaged, it turns over fast, just like it should. Is there something sticking in there? Is it getting hung up somewhere? It only happens in really cold weather.



jaynes

 

[bgilbert]

How bout taking it off, opening it up, inspecting, look for obvious something that jumps out at ya. Brushes, starter contacts and plunger are cheap, maybe when the reject at autozone rebuilt that one, he used some of the original parts. Is it out of warranty from autozone? While its off, try taking it to an auto/electric starter rebuild shop and have them put it on the test stand and test it out for you. I think I have some pics of starter internals in my readers rigs album. Very easy to replace those three things I stated earlier.

 

[JLEONARD]

Allow me to tell a short story about an Autozone equivelent rebuilt starter.

It was for a Ford I had B4 the Dodge. Worked great fro about 4 months,then started acting like I had a dead battery... once I had to push start it (luckily it was a manual). I changed the battery, new relay, all the "typical" stuff and still once in a while it would still play possum.

Finally, and reluctantly, I pulled it out on the suggestion of a co-worker. Man, that thing sounded like a rattle when I shook it. The bushing on the front, that the drive gear, was so out of round, it had 1/4 inch play in one direction. It was actually binding the starter motor so it coulnd't turn.

Replacement starter (free, and I'll never go back to that parts store again) ... . and never another problem.

Sorry for the journal.

Hope your problem is solved that easily.

Jay

 

[jaynes]

No these are all good ideas. Good story, sometimes you just gotta learn your lesson, and it looks as if i've learned mine... never go to Autozone ever again. I'll half to get it off when the weather gets warmer. Possibly next monday. I'll look into it, thanks guys! Oh one more questions. Would they be able to tell something was wrong with it on a test stand if it wasn't, say, 10 degrees in the store? Cause thats when things go haywire!



jaynes

 

[JLEONARD]

say, 10 degrees in the store

:-laf That's a good one. I would put the starter in my freezer and take it to the parts store in a cooler if that's what it took to get a warantee replacement... ... :-laf



Tha should give you your 10 degrees!!

Jay

 

[bgilbert]

I think the way the test stand works, is they put it under a big or contant load and that load should indicate what kind of load will be placed on the starter during cold temps. I think during cold weather the starter is placed under a higher load. Which I believe is what they try to duplicate. I'm just hypothezing here. Either way to all, don't buy el cheapo autozone parts for your Cummins. Yeah they replace it, it has a warranty, but you're gonna get another starter that identical in looks and probly acts just like the junk one you just returned to them. Plus who wants to have to keep removing a part and returning it to hopefully get a good. BTDT.

 

[JLEONARD]

Bill yes, that will simulate the battery draw at cold temps... . but I think jaynes is trying to simiulate the cold weather and what effect it will have physically in the starter... . ie changes in clearances, effect of congealed grease, that sort of thing.

Jay

 

[jaynes]

Heck I will put it in a deep freeze! Then say "Look, you sold me a no good frozen chunk o' junk! I think it may have something to do with the drive getting hung up in subfreezing temps, maybe having to do with grease, I dunno. But the added stress doesn't help any. I don't personally think it would do any good to put it on a test stand because no matter how big of a load they simulate, it still won't simulate subfreezing operating characteristics. I'll just get a new one. Would it be wise to get one directly from Cummins? Those are expensive, but I guess you get what you pay for. Is there somewhere else I could get a good starter without paying as much as I would at Cummins?



jaynes

 

[bgilbert]

Before you drop the $250+ for a starter from Cummins, at least remove it and look inside!!! My dad always told me its amazing how you take something apart put it back together and you fixed it, at least you might find out whats wrong with it, might even be able to repair it a heck of a lot cheaper than a new one. You do a screwdriver and basic hand tools don't ya? That is all that is needed for basic rebuild of a starter. 4 brushes~ $28, upgraded contacts and plunger~$ 20. = might just fix it?? You'll never know if you don't look inside... .

 

[JLEONARD]

You do a screwdriver and basic hand tools don't ya

Bill, He must... hey I'm an engineer and "they" trust me with a screwdriver... . silly "them" :-laf :-laf



Yes by all means remove the starter and take a good look at it... shake it, engage the drive gear manually... . Got jumper cables? Hook em up to the battery, hook up the "hot" to the stud, and touch the ground to the starter case.

She should engage the drive and spin like there's no tomorrow. Hold it down with your foot so it doesn't take off.

That's a down and dirt test I always do.

And if the warantee's up... hey take ot apart. Bottom line is if ya can't fix it, at least you'll learn something.

Jay

 

[jaynes]

very good ideas! I'm glad this site is here. Well put, if I don't fix it, at least I learned something! Thanks guys!



jaynes