Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Starter Soleniod not working?

[bobo]

I have an 01 auto trans 4X4. For some reason the starter motor refuses to engage when the key is turned to the start position. When you turn the key you can feel the relay marked "starter" (under hood in relay tray on front drivers side of truck) click or vibrate so it has movement, but no power is sent down the wire to the solenoid. There is a plug that attaches to the battery tray (Left Battery) that is the solenoid wire. I disconnected the plug and hit the key, and got no voltage. If I run a jumper from the battery to the solenoid side of the plug the starter will work, and the truck will start if the key is in the run position.



Lookng for suggestions here... My thoughts are that since you can feel the solenoid click when you turn the key to the start positon it probably is not the starter switch. Clearly there is no problem with the starter if it works fine when you jump the solenoid, but I have no way of knowing if the solenoid, or something else is bad.



Any guidelines on troubleshooting would be appreciated.



Thanks in advance,



Jeff

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Switch out a different relay and see it the starter turns. You should have a spare in the glovebox anyway.



Check out Larry B's site with the rebuild kit and the big contacts, too.

 

[grimesja]

There are several vendors for the larger contacts... . I bought mine on Eday for less then $20 easy fix. Geno's garage has them also. I also bought new brushes, which I didn't need to use.

 

[VHolloway]

clean battery wire to the starter with a wire brush my truck does it once or twice a year just clean the starter contacks and you are good to go

 

[bobo]

Interestingly I just replaced the ORIGINAL batteries (9yr 3 mo) about 3 months ago, so the terminals and cables are very clean. The problems seems to be that there is no 12V in the brown wire that runs in the same sheath as the main power cable to the starter and is hooked to the starter soleniod. I have swapped the relays and still no action.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Did you clean the solenoid side of the starter cable too?

 

[bobo]

Ok, I have re-cleaned each end of the power cable (starter end + battery end) with no chance.



Just to recap...



There are 2 wires that go to the starter, one is the main power cable off the battery and the other is the small brown(in my case anyhow) wire that attaches to the solenoid. I believe under normal conditions that the small brown wire only carries voltage when the key is in the start position. Once you release the key to the run position it removes voltage from the small brown line and disengages the starter.



The small brown line to the solenoid goes up from the starter in the same protective sheath as the large power cable for the starter. Near the battery it leaves the sheath and goes to the large junction box that hold all the relays on the drivers side under the hood.



Fearing that maybe the starter relay was bad I swapped it with another relay of identical part numbers. I still do not have voltage in the solenoid wire.



Before the soleniod wire actually goes into the junction box with the relays there is a plug in the line that is attached to the left battery tray. I separated the plug to verify it was clean, and it was. To start the truck I simply put a wire into the end of the plug going to the solenoid. I can turn the key to run, and then take the wire and jump it across the + terminal of the battery and it starts right up every time no problem.



Based on that I would say you can eliminate the wiring/connections from the plug to the starter, and also the maing power cables from the bat to the starter.



Now working from the other end...



When you move the key to the start position you can feel and hear the starter relay click, but when you put a test light, or volt meter on the solenoid wire plug (going to the relay J box side) you get nothing.



This leaves me with just a few choices I guess...



The first is a bad starter relay, but this seems unlikely since when I swapped another relay in I saw no change, and I know ther other relay and system is working (pre heat).



The second is the connection from the relay to the Brown wire that runs to the solenoid is bad. This would be a major PITA as it is one of hundereds of wires going into the J box, and they are all very tightly packed and sealed. No other dirt/corrosion in this area so not sure why this one would fail.



Any other thoughts on things I ovelooked would be greatly appreciated. Kind of embarrasing to have to open the hood to start the darn thing each time.



Thanks in advance,



Jeff

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Is there a fuse in the PDC or in the dash for the starter???

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[bobo]

all fuses are good. Verified with a meter...

 

[Missouri Mule]

Stick the positive probe of the multi-meter/voltmeter into the female slot closest to the battery of where the starter relay plugs into. You should get at least 12 volts (what ever volts the battery is putting out).

 

[bobo]

Stick the positive probe of the multi-meter/voltmeter into the female slot closest to the battery of where the starter relay plugs into. You should get at least 12 volts (what ever volts the battery is putting out).

Tried this and found...

Key off = 0V

Key in run position = 0V

Key in Start position = 12. 98V



Thanks for your suggestion. Any idea where we go from here?

 

[bobo]

Now with a diagram...

Ok so this is a diagram of the relay socket.



Plug "A" has 12. 9V when the key is in the start position

Plug "B" is the plug that carries 12V down to the solenoid.



Plugs "C&D" never seem to have voltage in them

Plug "E" is is inactive. meaning it is just a whole to accomodate the male pin on the relay, but it does not have a corresponding female plug



Out of currosity I swapped the starter and AC blower relays as they are the same part numbers. I found the AC to work fine with the starter relay, but still had no juice running to the solenoid (plug "B").



To recap, I feel the relay is ok since it runs the AC fine

I have continuity from Plug "B" all the way to the solenoid so that should be fine

I think the ignition switch is fine since Plug "A" energizes with 12. 9V when the key is in the start position.

Verified good contacts with the main battery cables



All that being said it still wont start unless you supply 12+V to plug "B" (or the brown wire). Then it lights off like it should.



Did I mention I hate electrical problems...



I am weak with my electrical troubleshooting skills and hoping someone more skilled can identify a new path. i hate to take it somewhere because you never know what other problems you come away with.



Thanks in advance for being patient here.



Jeff

 

[Missouri Mule]

Looks like 24 valves are different then 12 valves. You need power going to one of the terminals all the time. Since B goes the starter solenoid it should be C.

 

[jraker]

I am having the same problem right now with my '01. Mine is an intermitent no start condition. After I cleaned everything I have gotten 10 out of 11 starts. This is not acceptable as the only time this truck has left me stranded was last Friday when I was out shooting. I have one added bit of complexity in my situation as I have a starter kill switch that I have been using for years so the Coyotes wouldn't steal my truck. I was either considering replacing the soleniod or relay. Bobo could you PM me if you happen to find the smoking gun. I will do the same.

 

[Bob Cochran]

A thought terminal A has 12. 9 volts with key in start position. If I am not mistaken the is one side of relay coil. The other side of the coil should go to ground is it grounded? If it is not the contacts going to the starter solenoid will not close. If this point not grounded no matter changing changing relays or new relays none will work. From your diagram cannot tell which terminal the relay coil ground should be and with electrical one of the first things to check is grounds. It almost always seem to be the case. I sure hope this helps some all I can think of as it seems you have checked everything else. A poor ground at this point would also cause iffy starts and could be would clutch switches and neutral switches for jraker intermittent no start.

 

[Missouri Mule]

bobo, states that he has power going to terminal A when he turns the igntion to start. bobo I think yuo stated ealrlier on the that the relay was clicking but it is easy to check for ground on Terminal D just hook a test light or multi-meter to postive post of battery and stick the other end into terminal D.



But you need power going to terminal C. The usual cause for no power is the fuse is blown but you could have have a bad connetion or broken wire.



The fuse you are looking for is in the PDC where the relay is I believe it is a 40amp fuse.

If terminal B is the correct terminal that goes to starter solenoid you can use a jumper wire from the battery(positve) to termimal B ( just touch it) this should turn the starter over (if key is in the run psotion you should able to start engine).

 

[mstephenson]

I, too, am having random no starts. So I have to ask the obtuse question:



During No Start situation my truck is clicking only. Did I read above correctly "the relay was clicking" is what I'm hearing?

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

If you hear a "click" it is the solenoid most likely. I doubt you can hear the relay while seated in the truck.

If the solenoid "clicks" but the starter doesn't spin then you need new contacts. It will usually happen randomly until one day, then there won't be anything. I recently paid less than $10 for a set of the super large contacts and it takes less than an hour to put them in.

Godspeed,
Trent