Here I am

Starting my own Machine Shop. Any Hints

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Metal Detectors

I am thinking very seriously about starting my own machine shop. I have been building Plastic Injection Molds for the last 9 years and have a big desire to work for myself. The shop that I am currently employed at has had some ownership changes and is really going downhill fast. I don't know from day to day if I am going to have anything to do when I get to work. It has been a really bad feeling and the morale in the shop is the worst I have ever seen.



I think that I can do better on my own because I usually make good time on the jobs I do at work because I approach them in a much more efficient way. The shop I am at has not kept up with any technological advances over the last 10 years and it is really hurting it. I am looking at trying to expand into some different areas, such as short run production, aluminum prototype tools and fixturing for the assembly and manufacturing processes.



I have quite a few contacts, but am still scared about venturing out on my own.



Any of you business owners out there have any advice for me.

-Health Insurance

-Business Insurance

-Taxes

-Bookkeeping

-Employees

-Marketing and Sales



Just to mention a few of my concerns. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Contacts

I'd be glad to share the names of companies we use for:



- Health Insurance

- Business Insurance (liability, property, workers compensation, etc. )



Just call us. Ask for Robin. Health insurance (for this small business) is almost cost prohibitive. We carry it, but it gets harder and harder each year due to escalating costs. My insurance - no family members included - runs about $280 per month. Robert's runs even more since our daughter is on his account. A single male employee under the age of 30 - on average - is running us about $230 per month. One family with two kids runs us just under $800 per month. And this is not a RICH policy; it is plain Jane vanilla - no bells and whistles.



Bookkeeping:



- Quickbooks (even I can use Quickbooks) and it is very affordable - a single-user copy may run about $200. I've even heard of small shops starting on Quicken (about $60) and running for quite a while. Heck, we still run the TDR's books and payroll on Quickbooks, and I don't see us outgrowing it any time soon.



Accounting and Taxes:



- Get a good, affordable local accountant, preferably someone who works with other small business so they understand the need to book as few hours as possible (no way could we do those ourselves) and who works on a job-by-job basis (i. e. financial review, tax preparation, general questions you'll have).



Employees:



- Avoid them for as long as possible due to Worker's Compensation Insurance, Payroll Tax Liability, Hiring, Vacation, etc.



Marketing and Sales:



- We could use some help with this one too, so I'll keep my mouth shut on this item.



Feel free to call. We don't do it all right, but we're glad to share what we do. Ask for me.



Robin

TDR Admin
 
Robin:

Very insightful information, especially from someone who has actual real experience with the subject!!!! You have said in a few words a basic primer anyone who is considering starting their own business, should think about very carefully!!!!!!



Ever considered a career as a mentor??? as if you do not have enough to do already, with a business, family, etc. !!!!!! :-laf
 
JCasper,



Robin gave good advice. I agree with Quickbooks as a cheap and effective record keeping tool. Don't go overboard setting it up - your goal should be to make it as simple as possible to train someone else on it.



Regarding health insurance, the most cost effective plan today for an individual (or family) is a HSA assuming you are in good health. The reason being that 1) an individual must qualify for coverage, therefore the risk is pre-determined as contrasted to a small group (<50 participants) that, by law, must be offered coverage at controlled rates, and 2) the deductible on a HSA is very high, thus the insurance company is insulated from nickle and dime claims. The upside for the individual is that money into the account is tax free, and does not have to be spent before the end of the year (like FSAs). Click here for more information.



I agree with Robin about employees - don't bring them on until you have to and when you do, make them producers (makes money) not overhead (like a bookkeeper). Contract out the overhead functions when you can no longer stay up late at night to do it yourself.



Get business insurance from your current agent or have that agent recommend someone for you. Keep this relationship local.



Robin mentions hiring/firing (implied) and vacation. Check with Oregon Dept of Labor. If Oregon is an at-will state then you can fire someone at will with no reason and no retaliation. In fact it is better to give NO reason unless there is an act for cause on the part of the employee, else any reason yo give may be construed as some form of discrimination by the employee. Unemployment insurance costs as a result of firing is another issue. Documenting employee performance in an at-will state is done only to show cause, thus denying the former employee unemployment benefits when dismissed for cause.



There is no law that says you have to give someone vacation, and even more surprising there is no law that says you have to pay someone for accrued vacation when they quit. Companies that do offer these policies do it as a way of attracting employees to join and also encouraging employees to leave in an orderly fashion. Else when an employee decides to quit, they go on vacation, then give no notice or no-show on the first day they were to return.



With employees, the only things you MUST do is unemployment insurance, workers comp insurance, and pay state and federal payroll taxes. Everything else is to attract employees.



The business may need state and local business licenses, you will need a taxpayer ID from the IRS, and you will need to register the business with your state (usually the Secretary of State). You will need to decide if it is an LLC, sole proprietor, partnership, or open corporation. The differences are in tax treatment and the choice is based on how you start it and where you want to go with it. Click here for more info.



You probably need to file quarterly returns with the state (you must file quarterly with the fed IRS for payroll, and annually for income tax if the corporation reports it). Your state may require returns for sales tax collection, use tax (sales tax not paid for out of state tax-free purchases), payroll, unemployment, workers comp, etc. Check with the state and county websites for reporting requirements.



Make contact with your bank and see if they will offer you a line of credit. Plan to put your house up as collateral (and if married, make sure you run this by your wife first). Otherwise start opening every credit card offer sent to you and request the max line of credit while you still have a job. The SBA may be able to help, but typically want too much documentation.



A good resource for financial modeling and business planning is an excel-based package called biz plan builder. I've used it to start several companies. Click here for more info. If you use it, don't get carried away. Use it to think about all the angles and rough out the plan. You don't need to optimize every angle.



And if you do present a business plan to the bank, and they ask if you can improve it DON'T SAY LET ME WORK ON IT. Oldest trick in the book. If you don't have conviction and believe it is already perfect then they have succeeded in uncovering your own doubt and lack of confidence. If they ask what can you do with more money? say nothing - I can't spend it and don't need it (else I would have asked you for more!)



The most important advice I can give you is be very frugal. Work out of your garage first - don't go leasing a lot of space with a fancy office and a pretty sign. In fact, if you can swing it, start lining up business while you are still employed and work evenings/weekends to deliver.



You need to be the chief salesman. Leverage existing contacts/customers. You say you have a lot - confide in one or two your idea to test the waters (and get them morally committed to giving you business when you are ready to take it on!)



Marketing at this stage needs to be word of mouth. Don't worry about spending a lot of money or effort in this area.



Just remember a few things. 1) A successful business needs a good product, but the product alone does not make the business successful. 2) You need to decide now whether you want to build a life-style business, or build up something for growth and possible sale. How you structure the business and the steps you take along the path can have a consequence, plus it is good to set your expectations now and use this to guide you. 3) Plan on giving up the next 3-5 years of your life if you want anything more than a lifestyle business. 4) The philosophy of most government agencies is to support and nurture business, not stifle it, regardless of what you may think or hear. So don't worry about getting everything right day one. As long as you aren't committing blatant fraud, they will be understanding the first time an oversight is uncovered.
 
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plastic molding/ machine shop

Hey JCasper, I have exactly what you are looking at doing. I started my business in 86' and worked it part time till 2000 when I quit my "day job". I'm just across the river from you in Washington. If you wantto, PM me and we can get together and I'll show you my setup!
 
JC, You have just been given the best advice for starting a business I've seen.

Quciken is great for small business.

Hardships ... short list.

Married? Make sure it is strong. Times will be tough at first.

For the first year or two you will have NO free time.

You will work long hours and there is no time clock or breaks.

You will be poor for the first 6 months. (above stated credit cards are a necessity)

You will have to pay others before you pay yourself.

You will be challenged like you have never been before.

Benefits... short list

The ability to stage your own progression.

Pride in what YOU have done.

Personal growth potential. (you are as big as you want to be)

MONEY! (when you get it all figured out)

Time, you schedule you now. The clock is yours after you succeed.

Good luck, Mike
 
NPS



Just curious what kind of businesses have you started? Thank you for the advice.



I have a shop that I can use on my Dads property, so there will be no rent. Eventually in the next couple of years I am going to buy the house and property so the business will then be right by my house. That will help to keep my overhead low.



Everyone, thank you very much for your advice. If you have anymore I would definitely appreciate it.



Plazman, I will contact you next week. Thanks, Joe
 
JCasper said:
NPS



Just curious what kind of businesses have you started?

A high tech software development company, an IT services company, and an architectural design/construction company. Also ran a telecom equipment manufacturer and a wholesale condominium reseller company, but they were both existing businesses.



A business is a business. The only real difference is what you make on the 'factory floor' and how you deliver the product.
 
Late but interested

I finally decided to respond to your post! All the info you have received is accurate and valuable. Now let me give you some advice from a former machinery salesman's perspective. Your equipment choices will make or break you. As a mold maker, you obviously possess the geometry and trig skills needed to make good parts. Remember, machines make exactly what the operator/programmer tell them to. I consider mold makers to be the very best machinists alive. Compound surfaces, hard materials and close tolerances make machinists from apprentices!

To succeed in your field, and to get qualified as a vendor for most good companies, you will need to exhibit skills in quality control, programming, tolerance control, heat treating and materials. ISO 9000 and derivitives thereof are almost mandatory for getting the GOOD work. Make the committment to be good at all those things, and you will be very successful!

All machine tools are not created equal. Price is a factor and predictor of quality. Stay as far away from Chinese built as you can. Taiwan stuff is not bad as long as you get good service from a reputable dealer. The very best is Japanese, like it or not. Be careful though, some Japanese stuff is now outsourced to China. Put digital readouts on every machine.

Hook up with local tool makers for good performing cutters and cutting fluids. Keep a clean shop, expecting a visit from your best customer at any time. Don't do business with someone you don't feel quite right about. What's their pay reputation? Some will try to string you out just because they want you to be in their pocket. Network with other small shops and get feel for who not to work for. Get a feel for what you do best and do not stray from that type of work.

It's all work for a long time, but the rewards are all yours.

Listen to the salesman whom you trust. Is he interseted in your success, or just selling you something? If he asks questions about what YOU need, he probably has your best interest in mind. If he says he doesn't have what you need, but he can find whom you need to talk with, trust him. I always believed, that I never sold anybody anything, but rather they told me what they needed and I helped them find it. Maybe I had it, maybe not, but that bond of trust made them my friends.

I wish you the very best!

Ron

:)
 
Any of you in this industry have thoughts about the competition with the chinese that we are facing. It seems the more people I talk to the more I here that they are having to lower shop rates to stay competitive. My main financial backer is telling me to think about it a little more because of that. My job just ended, the shop I was working at closed the doors last week. I am currently looking for another job, because I cannot stay unemployed while I figure all this out. Thanks so far for all the information. Joe
 
The shop I work at is currently going through the "cheap labor competition" crisis. Our solution is to use the latest and greatest equipment. We allready know that we cannot compete with the overseas markets as far as labor is concerned. However if we can make parts "twice as nice" and in 1/3 the amount of time, and meet delivery we expect to stay in the game. Incidentally we run several Makino MC86 machines in a pallet cell that allows us to do many things that our competition cannot. We have swtarted to switch over to 5 and 6 axis turning centers with live tooling and "y" axis capability to stay in the game. Our theory is that the best machinists are the ones who make the machines do all the work. If you can't out price out smart em.



Jason
 
Hey Jason,



What part of the country are you in. I just took a job today at another Mold Shop. I currently build Plastic Injection Molds and enjoy it so I figured I would try and stick with it. I would like to start my own shop but for now I think I am going to put that on the back burner and just see how things go over the next few years. The shop I am going to just bought a new roders High Speed CNC vertical machining center. It looks to be a pretty slick machine. I am excited to get to learn how to use it. The shop that I previously worked at that just went under had a Makino V55. It was a nice machine when new but by the time it was two years old it had . 0015 backlash in the X axis. It has a grease system on the ways instead of an oilbath type of lube and we cut a lot of graphite on our machines so I am sure that it contributed to the problem. Have you had any problems with any of your Makinos. Take care, Joe
 
you sound like you are holding off on plans. but wanted to point out you need to take action to protect your's and your father's assest in case of liable. you mentioned no rent and his facilties. you need to establish rent (contract) even if its a dollar plus interest each month, carry insurance under the business name and set your personal assest outside of te business domain. living trust comes to mind for your personal assests. you should form an LLC there are several tax and liability hazard protections built into these etc.



good luck with the new job.
 
Todd T, and everyone else,



Thank you very much for the advice. It is all great information, I will save all of it for future reference. Thanks again, Joe
 
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