Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Stealer Dealer ?

[Huff N Puff]

I'm a new member,I must say I've gotten alot of good infomation. Some thing that disappoints me about the discussion though,is slanderous tone,when it comes to the dealer. Why do alot of you, alienate a whole group of guys,most of which work hard for a living. I have my own shop,and know first hand how hard,fixing some of todays complicated cars and trucks can be. So if you cant fix your own truck,and you find yourself having to go to a dealer,remember the golden rule. Instead of alienating the technicians at the dealers,lets work at including them in on our discusion. I'm sure there are alot of good techs out there,with alot of good infomation. I'm sure ther are a few bad apples to. Those bad experiences can be chocked up as an education and that usually costs. Merv

 

[PZech]

I agree that it sometimes gets a little out of hand but check out my post on my exhaust manifold and I understand why it's so easy to get upset. My dealer not only told me he wouldn't fix my manifold, but my modifications (consisting of a muffler bypass pipe and a pyro tap hole) ran the probability of voiding all warranty work on my truck. He went on to advise me that once my modifications were entered into the DC computer, I wouldn't be able to receive warranty work at any other dealer either!!!



He told me this was all prompted by a visit by DC to their dealers warning them about all the modifications taking place on these type trucks.



This was a very friendly conversation that took place over a span of just a few minutes in the inspection area of the dealership.



I know I can resort to legal action and get the thing fixed but should I really have to?



I'll was hoping to save the $$ but will no doubt end up with the ATS unit and install it myself.



Pat

 

[Chaycock]

I agree but I also have to disagree. I sell 100s of Edge products and some dealers say it voids warranty and thats OK BUT how about the dealer that says IF YOU BUY THE EDGE BOX FROM HIM HE WILL COVER THE WARRANTY OTHERWISE YOU LOSS YOUR WARRANTY ? There's your bad dealer. I try to include my service tech in my repairs. After all He and the service manager run boxes. You do need to build a good relation with them.

 

[Huff N Puff]

Hey Pat,try to see thier point of view,alot of the guys here,including my self. are reengineering these trucks. Every thing,form big tires, fueling modules wastegate modifications,you can go on down the line. We are watching exhaust temp. cause we by- passed the engineers protections and limits . When we do this,we have to take responsibility for what happens,cause every thing we do to these trucks,has implications somewhere down the line . Merv

 

[BFC]

I'll play the devil's advocate, if you'll allow me I don't have a problem with taking responsability for my mods. What I have a problem with is the dealer saying "well your warranty is out, period" When the law says that if they prove that an unaproved mod dammaged the part then THAT part is not coverred, not the ENTIRE truck! Why should my comp void the warranty of my clock spring??? Then I have to go to court against a major corporation to prove that I'm right, because the law clearly says so! Who as the time or resources, not to metion the energy, to do that! And they know it, so we pay for the truck, the mods, the repairs and the only left to do is ***** about it! That is what I think is wrong with it and IMHO dishonest.



Off the soap box,



Glenn

 

[SOOT]

I, as a Diesel Tech know exacly how hard and complicated it can be to diagnose and repair todays engines. The main problem is there are not enough knowledgable techs today to cover the amount of Diesels on the road and since Diesels tend to rack up the miles & hours alot quiker than Gassers we see problems more freaquently.

 

[dan_gilson]

Although I agree we could be a lot better with our wording, many of us have had problems time and again with not just one dealer but several. The 5* that I purchased the truck from even commented to my dad (who also purchased a truck from them) that if I could not give them a perfect score in the service eval form just to not turn it in. I have had several conversations with the service manager as well as the GM over service related issues and time and time again they did not fix them. I have been lied to (and caught them in it). I have had two dealers dent the vehicles. One denied it. Neither told me.



Good service is a hard thing to do. And I have high expectation in this area. In other words I am a hard customer to please.



I have had problems from time to time with 3rd party shops. On most accounts they have addressed the issue and we have come to some mutually agreeable arrangement. Do I recomend those shops? Yes! They are not perfect but they are doing their best and keep their customers first.



Do I recomend going to a Dodge dealer for service. In general No. At least not the ones that I have dealt with in this area. I am sure that there are some good ones out there. And if you know of one that is within say 100 miles of San Jose, CA please tell me. I may need to one day pay them a visit.



Right now I service my own. I know the work is being done. If I need engine work done that I do not know how to do or don't want to do, I take the truck up to Cummins West. They are good people to deal with and very professional.

 

[Shovelhead]

Howzeabout the Parts $$$?



A fuel filter that costs $14 at the Cummins shop, costs $$47. 00 at the dealer.

I know it's only one example.



There are good dealers and bad dealers.

I would think that as a "5 Star" there would a least be some consistancy in policies regarding warranty issues.



This is one example.

"5-Star Service"

 

[John Berger]

I too have had problems with dealers. My local 5 turds dealer wouldn't work on my pinion seal leak that was persistently cropping up. They blamed Amsoil's lube, although they wouldn't put it in writing. I found a good dealer in the next town and the problem ended up being a bad axle housing, which was replaced under warranty. How am I supposed to feel about that? I bought three vehicles from the local guys. My mistake was not buying this truck from them. If it's a Dodge, it's a Dodge, regardless of the dealer it was purchased from. I do most of the work on my truck. It keeps me close to it. I have to rely on the truck to keep me and the wife safe when towing. It's hard to trust a dealer when they've done you wrong and lied to you about it.





Here's another part story. I called the local dealer for a price on front brake pads - $118 :--) The local Advance Auto had what I wanted for $25. That's $93 worth of diesel fuel. I could have got high end brake pads for $71, which is still considerably cheaper than the dealer.

 

[Pit Bull]

I think the members here call it as they see it. I call my Dealer a Dealer when he is acting fair. I call them a Stealer when they try to screw me. Sorry if that is not Politically correct but its the truth.

 

[illflem]

Sorry guys I may have been the one who coined the term stealer here a few years back, at least it was the first time I saw the term and many folks asked who I was talking about. Needless to say the name caught on rapidly. Anyways, I was referring to dealer parts prices, as far as service they're just like any other business, there's good and bad ones.

 

[A. Brown]

Gee, lets see. I ask the tech to drive my truck to see if he can duplicate an engine noise and his response is ' I don't get paid to do that'. Attitude is one of the biggest problems at the dealerships, they don't want your feedback or ideas. Oh yea, it also took them three day to determine that the lift pump was shot, even though the truck was doa and I told them it was probably the lift pump. Face it, the dealers bring a lot of the criticism on themselves.

 

[emjay]

I've gotta agree with A. Brown and dan_gilson. Arrogance is a big problem with dealer service. OBD is good at identifying failed components, but it doesn't work for intermittent problems or mechanical ones (i. e. John Berger's pinion seal problem). To be a good tech you gotta know how to troubleshoot, which is becoming a lost art. Some techs cover up their lack of skill with arrogance; if the scanner says it's ok, there's no problem, or apply the "shotgun" method -- replace stuff 'till it's fixed or the customer runs out of money, whichever comes first. I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[zimman20]

mdemello- Welcome aboard.



That said, sit back and read a bunch more posts before drawing any conclusions about how we feel about dealers.



First of all, in many cases it's not the mech that we're p. o. 'd at, it's the drones at the service desk that 'screen' a lot of these troubles and the service managers that refuse to treat us as valued customers. They're very quick to decide that they can't find a problem or to blame mods, or to play parts-changer at our expense; also not very well informed when it comes to what is and isn't covered by warranty.



In most cases where a dealer has been maligned it is due to the attitude (as A. Brown succinctly stated) we are given by the dealer service reps, the bad ones do not treat us as intelligent or knowledgeable about our vehicles, and in many cases treat us like children that they just aren't going to humor instead of treating us as valued customers.



If you read carefully you will see threads started with positive feedback on dealers that provide good customer service so that everyone in the area knows which dealer(s) to patronize.



The bad ones are detailed in full as to what the bad experience was so that others don't frequent those dealers if they agree that the treatment was shabby.



The biggest complaint we have about the mechs who work on these trucks is that many of them don't know squat about diesels and are playing diesel techs for the day. Those and the ones that either refuse or are not allowed by their mgmt to discuss their troubleshooting techniques/findings with us so we can try to come to an agreement on the trouble/diagnosis if we don't feel like our issue(s) were addressed.



It's nothing personal, mon!



zman

 

[JR2]

I think its important to remember that its probably not the guys back in the shop bays that cause all the problems. Its the service writers. They tell the shop guys what to do and that is all they are susuposed to do. I met a Cummins tech here at work and he was telling me how bad the dealers are. He used to work for the local dealer and said that he was not a mech there, he was just an apprientice (after 5 years). Now less than a year later he is on a field call for Cummins tearing down and rebuilding a huge Cummins gen-set. He basically had to quit because DC would not let him work on a truck, they just wanted parts replaced till the problem was solved.

 

[Midnite]

A couple of words on parts prices--yeah they're high, but most of that is from DC. If we could see the actual markup from various dealerships, I bet it would be pretty low. Replacement parts is a huge part of DC's operation, and when they make a ridiculously low profit margin on vehicle sales, the make-up has to come from somewhere.



Obviously, I'm not trying to say don't look for the best price when you go parts shopping--there are very few parts I'll pay the dealer's price for.



Mike

 

[Oxjockey]

And like when I had to go to 3 different dealers (with another truck) before one of them would recognize the problem as being a problem? I was happy with the third until they took two weeks to rebuild my transmission (under warranty) and wouldn't repay my loaner (which they had agreed to originally).



Or the dealer that sold me my last truck. It was a lemon buy back that they'd bought at an auction... but conveniently forgot to tell me. Then when I found out 4 years later, they couldn't care less.



I'll be the first person to band stand about a good dealer, such as County Chrysler which actually builds up TJs with lifts and warranties the install, and sponsors the Blue Mountain Jeep Alliance. They're head and shoulder above most, unfortunately, they're also like 80 miles away.



Bryan

 

[PZech]

Additional info since my last post. I talked with John Holmes @ Carson City Dodge and got the straight scoop on my cracked exhaust manifold. According to John, DC's warranty (you have to read the tiny print) only covers internally lubricated parts after the 3yr/36k. Now... ... had I purchased the $1,500 extended warranty that would be a different story .



It turns out my dealer was right for the wrong reason



Thanks John for your integrity, concern and knowledgeable input.



Bottom line, I purchased an ATS manifold and some POR Coating from Mr. Bob's and will continue to support the small businesses and distributors that support us and our bombing activities!

 

[Oxjockey]

Might want to try to get the exhaust manifold fixed under the 8yr 80k mile federally mandated emissions warranty, if that applies to diesels.



Bryan

 

[zimman20]

PZech- Didn't see your sig so don't know what year yours is, but-

what about the 100k warranty on these engines? Is your year not covered? It was my understanding the 3/36 was the base DC warranty but these engines have a 100k warranty on them, at least my 2001 does, and that's base. The extended is above and beyond that. Not for you?