Steel Braided brake lines

[milehigh.o.]

Has anyone put on steel braided brake lines? A friend of mine said I should convert over to steel braided lines and my stopping time would decrease. Does anyone make this kit for the truck or would I have to get them specially ordered?

 

[Regcabguy]

I installed them years ago on my 2nd Gen. and it firmed up the pedal some. I didn't experience any better stopping performance.

 

[BHolm]

More urban legends dispelled Steel braided brake lines will not reduce stopping distances. Some claim a firmer pedal feel but that too is difficult to swallow. To be DOT approved the line must be teflon or rubber inside the braided jacket. Those materials compress/expand as much as the stock rubber coated lines on the truck. If your stock rubber lines are soft enough to make the pedal not as firm as it should be, new lines are in order. Fortunately they are made to pretty strict standards and unless the truck is close to ten years old I suspect they are still in good shape. You may be able to find a set of brake pads that will stop shorter but the braided steel lines are no more than decoration.

 

[GWBourne]

it will firm up the pedal as mentioned, the lines are more of a security deal. they dont expand hardly at all when pressure is applied like rubber lines do. my 74 blazer is all braided lines and when it drives stops great. partialy because of that but also due to the full custom brake system.

Grant

 

[AllGoodHaywood]

Kore Performance stocks em, I put them on and it seems a little firmer but looks is what counts anyways, right?

 

[MNielsen]

Kore does offer them for $149. 00 plus shipping. I agree with AllGoodHaywood in addition to the steel braiding is more resistant to external abrasions and road damage. They also expand less causing a "firmer" pedal while braking.

 

[BHolm]

You guys all keep saying that they expand less than rubber lines. What are you basing that on? The looks? Like I mentioned before the braided lines have rubber inside them. The steel covers are woven and look like they offer a whole lot more stretch than the hard molded stock lines. Stock lines are a whole lot tougher than you guys give them credit for too. When was the last time anyone had a rubber line cut? I off road a lot (not in the Dodge) and have never cut a line. I have run Porsches on the racetrack for years and run stock rubber lines with NO problems at all. They are nothing more than a beauty item.

 

[milehigh.o.]

You guys all keep saying that they expand less than rubber lines. What are you basing that on? The looks? Like I mentioned before the braided lines have rubber inside them. The steel covers are woven and look like they offer a whole lot more stretch than the hard molded stock lines. Stock lines are a whole lot tougher than you guys give them credit for too. When was the last time anyone had a rubber line cut? I off road a lot (not in the Dodge) and have never cut a line. I have run Porsches on the racetrack for years and run stock rubber lines with NO problems at all. They are nothing more than a beauty item.

I have to disagree with this for many reason. I have doing some research on this, since posting the question and have read that the steel line do reduce expansion and preformance. As well with the steel brake lines and with steel water hoses they decrease exansion and can avoid bursting to some degree.



Here are some of the examples I have researched.



1.

Stainless Steel vs. Nylon or Rubber line.

If there is one item you can get that will make an instant, noticeable improvement to your brake feel and performance, switching to a stainless steel braided line is it! When you squeeze your brake lever and force fluid through the hydraulic line to the caliper, the line expands under pressure. This means that a good portion of the effort you put forth from your hand DOESN’T get to the caliper! It makes the line expand. By switching to a stainless steel braided brake line, you restrict the lines expansion characteristics. This means that your hand pressure goes directly to the caliper.



2.

In any braking system there is flex - in the pedal, in the caliper, but most of the flex is in the hose. Every time you step on your brake pedal, up to 1500 pounds of pressure moves brake fluid from the master cylinder to the caliper. Most of the way, the fluid moves through rigid steel lines. Unfortunately, these steel lines can not complete the journey all the way to the caliper because movement in the line is necessary to connect a non-moving part (the chassis) to a moving part (the brake assembly as attached to the wheel). These connecting hoses are made from rubber and nylon. Even with the nylon braiding inside the hose, when that much pressure hits it, it will expand. This expansion, or flex, weakens the braking system as it allows for loss of energy meant for the calipers. In a Stainless Steel Braided Teflon Hose, this flex is reduced dramatically. This means quicker pedal response and shorter braking distances.



3.

StopTech stainless steel brake lines improve pedal feel and reduce the amount of time between applied pedal pressure and actual deceleration by preventing expansion, which stock rubber flex lines allow. This provides a quicker pedal response, and allows the driver to maintain consistent brake pressure and precision brake modulation.



StopTech Stainless Steel brake lines consist of a Teflon® inner line that is covered with a layer of stainless steel woven braid. The Teflon® tube is very resistant to expansion under pressure and will not degrade from exposure to brake fluid. The stainless steel braid provides support for the Teflon® and the weave is extremely durable against incidental impact and abrasion. StopTech Stainless Steel brake lines feature a Clear Abrasion Resistant Cover for maximum protection against chaffing.

 

[McLaughlin]

Couldn't this discussion be like that of a baloon? If you have just the baloon and put more air in it it will expand until the surface tension of the baloon, the outside air pressure and the inside air pressure are alll equal. As such the force of the air you put into it is distributed accros the entire surface of the baloon. However, if you slip the baloon inside a PVC pipe and put more air in it, the pipe will still expand but the amount of expansion inside the pipe is limited because the strength of the pipe restricts it and as a result the ballon expands at both of the pipe since there isn't as much strength there. If the brake was a one end of the pipe and the pedal at the other they would see more apparent pressure because of the channeling effect of the pipe. All that said, I think the point that Bholm is trying to make is the strength of the rubber lines, in good condition, is enough that the rubber lines really don't expand any more than steel lines since the steel lines have rubber in side them.

 

[milehigh.o.]

Well from what I am getting out of this is that I will get a firmer feel out of the pedal, but if I am going to be towing alot and heating up the brakes then I should invest in the lines, but if I am primarily just commuting, its a mood point and it comes down to spending the money.



Am I correct in this assumption?

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

We have the KORE brake lines in stock



Greg DRC

 

[madduck]

The steel braided lines do not expand anywhere like stock rubber lines. They may have rubber in them but it is much thinner vs stock lines, then put the braiding into the mix and you have a much better brake line. I also took my Porsche to several PCA events and other local auto-X events and would never have thought of using stock rubber lines. The last few years I have been racing(amateur) on two wheels and they require stainless braided lines. I have felt the improvement on every vehicle that I switched over!!

 

[BHolm]

I have to disagree with this for many reason. I have doing some research on this, since posting the question and have read that the steel line do reduce expansion and preformance. As well with the steel brake lines and with steel water hoses they decrease exansion and can avoid bursting to some degree.



Here are some of the examples I have researched.



1.

Stainless Steel vs. Nylon or Rubber line.

If there is one item you can get that will make an instant, noticeable improvement to your brake feel and performance, switching to a stainless steel braided line is it! When you squeeze your brake lever and force fluid through the hydraulic line to the caliper, the line expands under pressure. This means that a good portion of the effort you put forth from your hand DOESN’T get to the caliper! It makes the line expand. By switching to a stainless steel braided brake line, you restrict the lines expansion characteristics. This means that your hand pressure goes directly to the caliper.



2.

In any braking system there is flex - in the pedal, in the caliper, but most of the flex is in the hose. Every time you step on your brake pedal, up to 1500 pounds of pressure moves brake fluid from the master cylinder to the caliper. Most of the way, the fluid moves through rigid steel lines. Unfortunately, these steel lines can not complete the journey all the way to the caliper because movement in the line is necessary to connect a non-moving part (the chassis) to a moving part (the brake assembly as attached to the wheel). These connecting hoses are made from rubber and nylon. Even with the nylon braiding inside the hose, when that much pressure hits it, it will expand. This expansion, or flex, weakens the braking system as it allows for loss of energy meant for the calipers. In a Stainless Steel Braided Teflon Hose, this flex is reduced dramatically. This means quicker pedal response and shorter braking distances.



3.

StopTech stainless steel brake lines improve pedal feel and reduce the amount of time between applied pedal pressure and actual deceleration by preventing expansion, which stock rubber flex lines allow. This provides a quicker pedal response, and allows the driver to maintain consistent brake pressure and precision brake modulation.



StopTech Stainless Steel brake lines consist of a Teflon® inner line that is covered with a layer of stainless steel woven braid. The Teflon® tube is very resistant to expansion under pressure and will not degrade from exposure to brake fluid. The stainless steel braid provides support for the Teflon® and the weave is extremely durable against incidental impact and abrasion. StopTech Stainless Steel brake lines feature a Clear Abrasion Resistant Cover for maximum protection against chaffing.

WOW, I just can't imagine a place SELLING you parts would claim they are better. It is just plain crazy to say that they expand like you guys seem to want to believe. So the 99. 9% of the cars on the planet have squishy brakes with lines that are expanding so much they are ready to just burst... . gimme a break.



As for needing them if you are towing a lot, I don't think so. My dually tows everyday upwards of 15,000 lbs. It has nearly 100k miles of this use and guess what... those flimsy brake lines are still holding. The ones on my '99 F-350 with 250k are also still holding. It is just crazy to try and suggest that anybody NEEDS them. People are want to buy into some strange things. Do you know how many people out there actually believe a K&N filter will give them more power and better filtration. Oooops, science proves otherwise. You can obviously do as you wish but it is far from something you need.

 

[milehigh.o.]

Well from what I am getting out of this is that I will get a firmer feel out of the pedal, but if I am going to be towing alot and heating up the brakes then I should invest in the lines, but if I am primarily just commuting, its a mood point and it comes down to spending the money.



Am I correct in this assumption?

BHOLM,



To your point, thats what I am asking. I don't think that what we have is inferior, but that is it really going to make me break better? No! Not unless I am racing this thing on a track or using my breaks in a manner that the break fluid is getting extremely hot that it will heat the stock lines and cause them to expand and cause the pedal to be softer.

 

[JdmFreak]

In all reality the lines will improve the braking. By not allowing the line to expand (which braided lines combat) the piston will receive more fluid thus more pressure in relation to the amount of pedal movement. With the line expanding it is allowing a larger area for the brake fluid to rest and it is not all being pushed into the caliper.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Wow,

I feel like I just strolled into a transmission Thread!!

I will share what I have experienced with SS Brake Lines. NOT MUCH!



There is a firmness to the pedal when you first put them on and that is about it. Not increased or decreased stopping, no bursting stock lines, no over inflated hype about brake lines. Just brake lines. Do we sell them/ A few sets have been installed. Do you need them? Definitely not. Will they help you from running a busload of nuns off the road as you spin out of control from the nitrous and water meth? No!

Seriously, the stainless steel brake lines have been in place in off road trucks for quite some time. They are known industry wide to be far superior to standard brake lines. They will withstand abusive situations, abrasion, and failure. I for one have them on the red truck and would not be without them. The SS lines will help with pedal feel and firmness. When I am driving above and beyond... ..... What is normal, I want assurance that the brake lines on my truck are safe. Are the stock ones o. k. ? Yes. Are the SS ones better? Yes. How much better, not much. But they are safer and will not fail. When we are driving accessivly fast in Baja failure is not an option.



Greg DRC

 

[madduck]

Yup, those 99. 9% of cars/trucks are completly fine with their stock mufflers, air filters, gauges,diff covers,computer program, all season tires,plain ole oil,radio's,lights. Heck lets face it, all car manufactures build the ultimate product and who are we to mess it up?? There just is not any reason to change their hard work.

 

[mbhw]

I went a different route.

Went a different route. I installed a set of Brake Guards on my truck. Oo. They have worked wonders for my truck. My stopping distance has decreased about 30-40%. At a 60 mph, panic simulated stop, my truck brakes without shaking, twisting,or chattering. It stops straight and true. The front end does not nose dive in a panic stop. Pulling my 5th, i can stop nearly has quick as a car. Solo, I can stop faster than most cars.



I had them on my 2000 Ford PSD and I transferred them to my 04 3500 Jan. 05. (One of the few after market items I was able to keep and transfer)

My F250 had over 93000 miles on the OEM brakes With plenty of pad still left. Expected to get 100,000 miles but had transmission problems :-{} pulling my 5th. So I traded it for my 3500 six speed manual. (No transmission problems now . I fully expect to get 100,000 miles on my current OEM brake pads.



I would not pull my 5th without them, or drive solo without them.



If your concern is to stop sooner, expensive brake lines will do little for you.



Hope this helps.

 

[Lorenz]

I use different lines for different applications. What I've found is that rubber lines give me more control by allowing braking pressure to ramp up rather than "just come on". I guess some of you guys like the "just come on" and name it "firmer"?



I like the Brakes on the front of my street bikes to be firmer. I can use 1/2 of the brake lever and be at 100% braking power. I ride with one finger always covering the brakes and the harder feel I get along with the limited brake lever throw allows me to stop faster with one finger. Great for nose wheelies and stopping when you only have one finger and one tire to depend on for a contact patch. I don't like the braided feel on the rear of my street bikes because it's too abrupt and I tended to lock up the rear easier with them on.



On my Mnt bikes I like the softer more linear feel I got with non-braded stuff. I want the control I get with softer lines. My Cross country bike has the hard plastic lines and my dual slalom bike has braided lines that may get changed out. I like being able to have 3/4 of my brake lever to modulate rather than the 1/2 I get with braided lines. I actually like the old cable actuated "V" brakes better on the back of my dual slalom bike because I was able to ride a more controlled wheelie with them, but they don't hold up in the mud or water.



In the Dodge, I don't feel I have any control over braking when compared to any of the bikes I've ridden. I have the anti-lock brakes to factor in, and 6-7k lbs to stop unlaiden. The only advantages I can come up with is the pedal "feel factor. " It feels less mushy? I've never tried braided lines on the truck but I don't really see an advantage. I've tried them on my Toyota Prerunner on the front because I needed a longer lines after I modified the suspension, and didn't find that big of a difference. I didn't have them on the back of that truck though... ?

 

[JGrammatico]

Brake Guard Products, Inc.