Steering Box Gear Backlash?

[Greenleaf]

Trying to locate the area of the play in my steering. It wanders. I don't think it should wander. It's all over the road at 65 and still very noticable at 55.



I have replaced almost everything steering related. Everything other than a couple of strut rod bushings and the gear box. Everything.



The gear box has slop (backlash) and I don't know if it should. I have adjusted it twice (tighter) and it still wanders. I am told if I make the gears too tight, the pressure will spike and blow out the seal(s).



How tight is too tight? By grabbing the pitman arm, I can "feel" some backlash inside. I don't know how much. Didn't measure it with a dial. Should I adjust all the lash out of the gears?



Wandering in Ohio

 

[John Martines]

Couple things, The steering couple from shaft to box. That is the first thing that to look at. The best thing for that is an aftermarket shaft and U-joint. The steering box I'm not sure, I replaced mine with a Napa after it started leaking and grabbing, Kind of over steering. The new box lasted a year. I bought an aftermarket and has been great ever since. One thing mine did years back was start to wander or grab and it was the front locking hub on one side would just jump out and engage, but not fully. Replaced with new Warn units and it's been good ever since.

Someone else here will be of more help I'm sure.

 

[Greenleaf]

The steering couple from shaft to box. That is the first thing that to look at.

Like I said, everything short of the gear box and a couple of strut rod bushing have been replaced.



EVERYTHING



The part in question is a three year old Borgeson with about 16K miles on it.

 

[DValentine]

I have tightened up a manual box too much and it gave out a couple months later... . broke apart the ball nut. Steering boxes wear in the center of the worm... where it spends most of its time. To tighten it to much leads to binding as you turn left or right. My older truck ( '60-'70's) has a procedure of tightening the adjuster on the pitman shaft to a preload measured on the steering wheel with a fish scale. On the Dodge, I jacked my wheels off the ground and worked the steering shaft with my hand as I snugged up the adjuster. Feels better, but not like a new truck. I think a new box is in the future.

Hope this helps.

Dave

 

[dpuckett]

Spend the $25 on new strut rod bushings- it sure wont hurt anything. It may be time for a PSC box. Had it not been 20deg for high temp when I sold my 91, the PSC box would be on my 92 now.



The stock boxes can be adjusted too tight, BTDT. It makes it REAL hard, as it seems to inhibit flow to the box from the p/s pump. I, too, had a parts store box fail on me, but took 2. 5 years to go out. By then, the warranty was almost up, and I had the option of trading it in, or living with it; refund wasnt an option. Mom's CRAPA steering box has its wandering days as well.



Has the front end been aligned, with attention to caster? Stock caster will make some of them wander, too. Seems like someone recently went quite abit farther (1. 5 vs OEM 0. 5 deg) and got good results. ALso, the range of "acceptable" specs is so wide, it can be within spec and still wander like a drunken sailor on shore leave.



Daniel

 

[Philip]

Scott keep adjusting the screw slowely. I normal move it about 1/8 of a trun at a time. Then do a test drive. You will feel the steering getting hard just as you go off center if your getting it to tight. Like Daniel said. To much and you blow the box celerences.



I just got your message a little while ago. Sorry I would have called you if I had known sooner.

 

[Greenleaf]

I cannot locate strut rod nor the sway-bar (stabilizer) bushings. Must I buy them from a dealership? I avoid them at all costs. I worked for one. I know how they operate.



There is a guy here on this forum who works for one way down South in LA. Maybe I'll look him up for the parts. NAPA has no clue what a strut rod/sway-bar/stabilizer is.

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

Dodge bought their steering boxes from GM. Good box but no markings on the outside as to ratio. Dodge put a lot of boxes with the wrong ratio into the Rams. A box with 4 & 1/4 turns stop to stop will wander all over the road. The correct box is only 3 turns stop to stop. I changed to a 3 turn from Power Steering Services, Springfield MO 417-864-6676. "Chip" is very helpful and he sent back my core charge ($100. 00) just like he said he would. The adjustment is not to be touched under any circumstances. On a power steering box it is the "over center" adjustment and can only be adjusted with the box out of the truck and by a properly trained Tech. When you get any box from anywhere turn the input shaft stop to stop before installing to see if you have the right box. I was ready to get rid of my Ram until I changed boxes and now it steers like a car and I will keep it. By what I read on here a lot of the guys have had the wandering problem. The dealer does not know why and the alignment shops do not know why. A guy named "Quigley" had a brother with a Ram that was a 3 turn and his was a 4 & 1/4 turn. After he drove his brothers truck he changed boxes. Then he wrote in to TDR and when I read it and went to my truck and it did 4 & 1/4 turns stop to stop I said some nasty things about Dodge and their obvious stupidity. This was 2 years ago. -- email address removed --

 

[dpuckett]

Try O'Reilley's, Checker, Advanced Automotive, etc; one of them should have it. They (bushings, not the arms themselves) are universal on 1/2 to 1 tons for several years.



If I think of it and can find the receipt, I'll post Moog numbers.



DP

 

[KOG]

J. BURCHFIELD is correct about adjustment. The box can be adjusted in the truck, but you have to disconnect the steering shaft and the pitman arm or drag link in order to do so. I'm familiar with the "tighten it a little at a time" approach, but you have to first set the input shaft end play which is done following procedure in FSM. You then tighten the output slack adjuster to add a small additional amount of torque to the input shaft also following procedure in FSM. FSM does say the gearbox can't be adjusted in truck, must be removed and clamped in vise. You can adjust in truck, but it may be easier to remove gear than to remove steering coumn, your call.

Slop in the steering can be caused by the gearbox. Wander can also be due to alignment. Zero camber, all the postiive caster you can get and about 1/16" toe (with zero camber only - toe and camber are related) works well for me.

 

[JLEONARD]

Guys,

IF I came up with a local comapny that could rebuild these steering boxes, do you think there would be a market for that?

This would not be a NAPA or O'Reillys rebuild, but a machine shop by a company that already rebuilds GM boxes for street rods, etc.



Any comments? What kind of interest is there by this group? What would a good rebuild be worth?

Any volunteers want to send a worn unit?

 

[KOG]

If they already rebuilding GM boxes they're already doing these.

 

[JLEONARD]

Yes but there are many GM steering boxes. Yes they already rebuild/modify two or three different models.

I do not believe they are rebuilding the Dodge specific ones.

 

[KOG]

I think the Dodge ones are internally identical to Chevy. May have different splines on input and output shafts.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

After just getting mine on the road, it wonders alot. Came to find out the drag link was bad. Also, it needs lined up bad. The right front is out something terrible. Will be done middle of next week. I replaced my steering box with one from advanced auto. I know you have replaced EVERYTHING, but is there a chance something you put on was bad from the start?



I wish I would have known you needed a few spare boxes, I just tossed out 2 of them.



On another note, is there or could there be anything wrong with the steering column? After seeing some of the steering columns come apart, could yours be going bad? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[dpuckett]

You THREW OUT 2 DODGE boxes? Shame on you, 25RWHP penalty. They are good for at least cores.



DP

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

You THREW OUT 2 DODGE boxes? Shame on you, 25RWHP penalty. They are good for at least cores.



DP

Sorry, but already turned one in as a core and didnt need anymore sitting around in the garage collecting space. Too heavy to ship and nobody wants them anyways. I got a whole garage full of misc parts that will be leaving soon. . . what do you all need, so I can get my 25 RWHP back. . :-laf

 

[TWorline]

Sorry, but already turned one in as a core and didnt need anymore sitting around in the garage collecting space. Too heavy to ship and nobody wants them anyways. I got a whole garage full of misc parts that will be leaving soon. . . what do you all need, so I can get my 25 RWHP back. . :-laf

You make a list & we will check it twice. You know what they say about 1 mans junk!

 

[rumblefish]

I've already benefitted from his "junk"... . thanks again Don. Hmm, what else you got???

 

[Greenleaf]

So, does anyone know for sure if there is to be backlash between the gears and if so, how much?