steering box

[JBergess]

My truck has been suffering from what an alignment guy called "dart & dive". In other words it's all over the place. This is before and after a complete rebuild of the front end, including new skyjacker springs, spring bushings, shocks, new Michelin tires, new aluminum wheels,(16X 8)(all 4), new tie rod ends, new drag link, new dana steering knuckles (up& down), rebuilt napa steering box, re-pack all bearings, & alignment. Probably other stuff too, but that's all I can remember. Oh yeah-new borg shaft. The camber is out . 25", and I got the adjustment kits, but I talked to another alignment guy, and he said he doubted that was the problem, and that he had heard, that some of these rebuilt boxes were rebuilt wrong. Any body else had similar experiance, and what solution? What about new stealer box, availability, price etc?



jbergess

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'90 W-350 214000mi

 

[Dman]

dart & dive

Check the u-joints on the front axle directly behind brakes. I think you will find that one or both are seizing up. This happened to me and I went crazy trying to figure what was wrong. If you got that many miles out of the originals, you did good. Make sure replacements have grease fittings. Replacing these babys isn't to pleasant either. If you need more help, ask.





David Williams

 

[JBergess]

Thanks Dave. Now that you mention it, I did get some vibration in my front end when running in 4 X, this winter in the snow. I hadn't even thought of that, but that sure sounds like it could be it. Yeah, I had a '78 w250 before this one that I had to replace those u-joints, so I know the deal. And no mine don't have grease fittings. Thanks again for info. I'll keep u posted on results.







jb



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'90 w350 214000mi

 

[cummins2go]

Hi you might try steering stabilizer shocks or shock, that should help. When I run any tire bigger than 35" I need dual steering stabilizer shocks hope this helps

Darrin

 

[AMikonis]

u-joints?

Sounds like you should replace the u-joints, BUT, if your hubs are unlocked, those joints shouldn't be turning, should they?

 

[JBergess]

steering and u-joints

Yeah- I got to thinking the same thing. Even though truck has that many miles, the front drive train, in reality has probably a couple thousand miles max on it. I could see it if it was a full time system. I still think the steering box is the culprit. Am going to check on new mopar box in day or two. thanks for imput.



jb w350 '90

 

[Dman]

dart & dive

You guys are missing the point. This joint must operate freely every time you turn the steering wheel. I doesn't matter that it is not turning - the joint must still move freely so your wheels can be steered. And only being used " a few thousand miles" causes them to rust up tite. The full time systems actually are very loose when worn out because they are turned constantly.







Dave Williams

 

[JBergess]

steering and u-joints

So your saying that even with hubs unlocked and axles stationary this still affects steering? When you changed your's did it correct the problem? No doubt I've got one u-joint w/one or more with bearing scorroded. Though I can still turn axles with my fingers. I still can't see how it affects steering. I'm going to change u-joints anyway-I've done everythig else, and like you say they need it. thanks.



_jb____________________________________________



'90 w-350

 

[AMikonis]

Interesting. I see what you are saying, Dave. Did you figure it out by turning the wheel while jacked up, or by replacing the joints?



jb, put the front on jackstands and have some one roll the steereing wheel back and forth. The joints will move when you do this. Listen by the u-joints for crunching sounds (engine should be off - ha!) maybe you can tell right away.



Let us know how it goes,

Andy

 

[mwhitson]

Me too!!!!

I’ve got the exact same thing going on (dart & dive) and have followed much the same repair path with very little improvement. I have an appointment tomorrow to try a new guy for an alignment, but will check u-joints first. I've got the originals without any grease fittings. I’ll be sure and advise what is found.



Mark



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1992, W350, auto, 3. 54, 110,000 miles, stock.

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[mwhitson]

U-joints were the answer in my case.

FYI - New front axle u-joints solved the problem for me. I checked them by jacking the front end up, locking the hub on one side at a time, turning the steering wheel far as it would go in either direction, then try to spin the wheel by hand. If they are binding up, you will notice right away.



Thanks for the info guys.



Mark



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1992, W350, 3. 54, auto, stock.

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[JHolt]

Front end alignment

I've had some similar front end woes, but mainly in the form of pulling to the right. I took my '92 250 4x4 into a couple of alignment shops, one was useless, the other seemed good and told me the camber or the caster was off on the right side (I can't remember the specs, it's been a few years. I can probably find it though. ). They claimed the axle must be bent and since only the toe-in can be adjusted, there's nothing I could do. This truck was so straight and perfect, I couldn't see how that beefy Dana 60 could be bent, and the only thing that would explain it would be a TWIST. I wasn't buying it. Finally replaced the steering box thinking that might be the problem. No change. So, I started swapping the front tires left-right every 5,000 miles to keep the wear even and keep the pull to a minimum.



I started thinking, well maybe this truck had been hit and repaired, and the axle or frame really was bent. Then a drunk driver hit me and totaled the truck. (That definitely bent the frame!) I put the whole drivetrain in an '84 crew cab, and IT PULLS TO THE RIGHT. The original drivetrain of the crew cab did not pull either way.



I thought that perhaps the right caliper is not releasing... but the LEFT pads wear faster than the right ones, so that can't be.



My front knuckle u-joints seem to be fine, as far as I can tell. Move and turn effortlessly. I can see how they might cause problems while turning, but while driving straight down the highway they shouldn't matter enough to make a difference.



I guess it really is out of alignment and there is no adjustment I know of. What is this adjustment kit you mentioned, JBergess? I can't seem to find a shop that really knows this kind of setup. I am on the verge of swapping in the original Dana 60 from the Crew Cab. It has 4. 10 gears so I will have to change those over to the 3. 54's. I hate to fool with that, but I am tired of this thing pulling to the right



What about the king pins? Anybody had them wear out?



Jack

 

[RGT]

jholt, your left pads are wearing faster because your right caliper is stiff, the left is doing most of the work, except when you press very hard on the brakes, hard enough to get the right to move, then it probably drags for a while.....



Just a thought

 

[JHolt]

Hmmm, interesting idea, rtrudeau. I think if that were happening it would pull to the left when I brake normally, and not so much when I brake hard. But it doesn't pull either way during normal braking, (at least that I've noticed) and does pull left somewhat when I brake hard. I'll have to think about that some more, though. I guess I could swap the calipers with the '84 setup...



The pull to the right isn't very severe, so it's not really noticable just driving around town. Mainly on the highway, and it isn't too bad, just gets annoying after a while. Hard on the tires, too.



I drove a straight-axle Toyota 4x4 for about 10 years, never had an alignment problem although I really abused that truck. Was hoping for the same kind of thing with the Dodge, but with more leg room! At least I get about the same mileage (or better) and can carry a whole lot more stuff!

 

[mwhitson]

U-Joints

For what it’s worth, my truck drove worse in a straight line and at speeds under 40 or so before replacing the front axle u-joints (only the drivers side was actually bad).



It drove OK at freeway speeds, so I was thinking that the axle must be rotating some at lower speeds allowing the joint to position itself onto the side with limited movement every so often (causing me to weave all over the road), and that the axle was staying stationary at higher speeds meaning the joint was only needing to move in one direction.



The entire situation was really inconsistent, some days it was not bad, and other days I was fighting to keep it between the lines. I think it depended on what position the u-joint was in.



Does any of this make sense?



Mark

 

[MMiller]

If the truck pulls one direction during braking, say for instance to the right, then usually the right brakes are working correctly. On my truck after a whiile of wheeling, water and mud it will start to pull one direction during braking. The caliper hangs up on it slides, then creates heat, then brake fade. The right is working correctly and the left is so HOT that the brake is not working. If it pulls during braking go for a ride until it starts pulling then get out and feel the opposite caliper, rotor QUICKLY because it will be HOT! I have been fighting this problem for a while and have come to the conclusion that when it starts to pull I pull the calipers off and re lube the slides with caliper grease, then she brakes straight again.



I hope this makes sense to you, and I realize this is probably not your problem but I saw in the other postings about brakes, hope this helps!

 

[JHolt]

brakes cleaned, it pulls more!

Well I just finished a marathon session working on the truck... I took the calipers off and cleaned them, greased the sliding surfaces, and replaced the pads. The left brake seems to have been dragging quite a bit. The left wheel was much harder to turn than the right when it was up on stands, and the left pads were worn much more. The outside left pad was down to the rivets.



I also replaced the front springs with some Skyjacker 2. 5" lift springs, which only lifted it about 1/2 inch because my stock springs had been modified. It now sits level, though, and rides better. (My left front spring had been sagging. ) I also checked out the steering knuckle u-joints again, while it was up on the stands, and they seemed fine... I tried the hubs locked/unlocked at the extremes of the steering wheel.



That's all great, BUT now it pulls to the right much worse!! I think the dragging left brake may have been keeping it from pulling to the right as much as it "wanted" to. It brakes fine, it pulls a little to the right but no more than when not braking. Before I did all this tonight, I tried some hard braking and it pulled slightly left, but not drastically.



I think I'm going to try a frame/alignment shop that specializes in trucks, and if that doesn't yield any new insights, I'll just have to swap in that '84 front end and see if it's okay.

 

[JBergess]

Steering

Here's the ongoing saga so far. 1st I have to say it didn't click with me that the u-joints would affect steering. But after jacking truck up and moving steering- duh-I get it. Anyway, I put the new u-joints in (mega-buck joints $45 a piece) and it did help some. Ifound one bearing cap on left powdered bearings, and one on right a little tight. I also found steering arm had play after only 14000 mi. I thought maybe this was due to Skyjacker 2. 5 system, and ordered drop pittman arm. Installed new sterring arm (Moog, can't remmember part# but got it online @ rockauto.com for $82)

This also helped a lot. The new pittman arm from Skyjacker wouldn't fit output shaft on steering box, ( about 3/16" too small)

called Rocky Mountain suspensions back (where I ordered all the suspension stuff) and another guy said I didn't need it in the first place Also noted as somebody else stated, that now truck is pulling to the right. Noted too that left caliper is dragging, these too were replaced only last year. Haven't put camber adjust kits on yet-next project. (Moog part # k992-about $82 apiece) Anyway truck still driving weird. OK on flat straight but pulls around on dips and still wants to follow cracks etc. Keep you all posted.



j bergess--90 w-350 2. 5 skyjacker alloy wheels lots of new front suspension stuff

 

[roadhawg]

Hey fella's





I had similar wandering problems and after replacing worn parts found that the real problem was in the lash adjustment in the steering box.

To determine if yours does also , reach into wheelwell and grab steering shaft and rotate steering back and forth

Watch steering arm to see if there is any play inside box. If when you move the shaft at all and there isn't movement at the exact time in the same direction you need to make this adjustment.



This is how to make the adjustment,

Look at the top of steering box by looking down beside the right side of batery tray between radiator and battery, Allmost directly under the driverside intercooler boot if you look closely you will see a 5/8 inch jam nut with a 3/16 inch allen head screw in the center.

Slip a 5/8 inch box end wrench over nut and loosen leaving wrench in place.

Now with nut loosened slip allen wrench into screw head and rotate clockwise to take out play, Only rotate about 30 degrees at a time checking play each time.



I ended up rotating mine a total of 120 degrees. IF YOU TIGHTEN TO MUCH YOU WILL CAUSE PREMATURE WEAR!!

Tighten jam nut and take for a drive.



Repeat as necessary.



I hope this helps yours as much as it did mine.