Steering shaft replacement for '89 W250 pickup

[Nountaineer]

I did not find a post by your search feature concerning the best, easiest, and least expensive replacement steering shaft. I found the $4. 00 repair kit that Dodge offers but the knuckle (u-joint) visible from the wheel well, is worn out and needs to be replaced. It has tape wrapped around it to help hold it together. Is there an alternative besides the Borgeson replacement shaft?



Thanks

 

[RSchwarzli]

Welcome to the TDR and congrats on your first post!

Are you speaking on the rag joint? Two bolt through a rubber isolator in the center between the steering gear box and steering column?

If so, yes you can replace the rag joint. If you want to replace the enter shaft, yes that is the Borgeson unit. Not many other options available.

Robert

 

[EDankievitch]

Don't cheap out install the Borgerson shaft and rag joint kit. Yea it's a lot of $ up front but you'll \never have to replace it again and the rest of us will thankyou for being safer.

 

[NJTman]

Another option

Not many other options available.

You can put stock parts in if you can overcome the spline size that our truck came with. When I "upgraded" my steering to RR, I used stock 1/2 Jeep XJ shaft with a stock Chevy C-10 half shaft. The XJ has a 3/4" spline end receiver on it, so if you're capable of fabricating / modifiying, you can make your own.

Parts pictured in post #1

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/steering-gear-retrofit-my-92-t301769.html

 

[Nountaineer]

Thank you for the responses. I almost had a head-on, after the left front tire popped. It dragged me over to the opposite side of the road. I have over-sized custom rims and tires which may have contributed to the incident. I have not driven the truck out of town since then.

I will order the proper replacement shaft and rag joint kit. Who has the best prices? I have done some fabricating but do not trust my ability when it comes to "my life".

 

[cerberusiam]

Borgeson and Flaming River both have replacement shafts with a real ujoint not that annoying thing OE used. Dealer is th eonly one I know of for the parts, if they haven't gone NS1. I quit using them and just get one of the previous when I nedd them now. Last one you probably ever buy.

 

[Nountaineer]

Borgeson and Flaming River both have replacement shafts with a real ujoint not that annoying thing OE used. Dealer is th eonly one I know of for the parts, if they haven't gone NS1. I quit using them and just get one of the previous when I nedd them now. Last one you probably ever buy.

Thanks cerberusiam, I will check them today.

 

[NJTman]

FWIW,

THe double U-joint Borgeson can cause internal issues of your steering column because of it's rigidity The "rag" joint was developed for an actual reason, and not just to **** off folks who think it's an OE mistake. It absorbs the cab mount (back and forth and up and down) fluctuation as the gear which is mounted firmly on the frame, VS the cab that is mounted on rubber grommets. Over time, the grommets flex, crush and move around, and so does your cab on rough terrain. Elimination of this rag joint can cause excessive back-pressure, or force on the column, cracking the internal plastic liner in the steering column.

Borgeson makes it with or without the rag, and if that's the way you're going, then make sure you get a new rag. It's cheaper anyway. Geno's has them IIRC, as well as Amazon and Summit

BTW...

The Borgeson shafts are not 100% foolproof, as some of the original designed units FAILED while on the road. There were some design issues which caused the shaft to collapse during use. I know someone who was driving his CTD when this happened, and luckily he was just pulling out on the road as it occurred. I think they've redesigned the lock between the upper and lower part of the shaft, but you might want to research this. Buy new and not a used older designed unit.

http://www.nwbombers.com/forums/topic/5029-borgeson-steering-shafts/

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/archive/borgeson-shaft-safety-alert-t137320.html

 

[JLEONARD]

You can put stock parts in if you can overcome the spline size that our truck came with. When I "upgraded" my steering to RR, I used stock 1/2 Jeep XJ shaft with a stock Chevy C-10 half shaft. The XJ has a 3/4" spline end receiver on it, so if you're capable of fabricating / modifiying, you can make your own.

The spline is a 3/4 dia 36 tooth which is a "standard" spline but some will have a flat section in the female yoke that attches to the steering box. Any of the Chrysler/Dodge "truck" products with a rag joint should have the same hole spacing (I used to work for the company that made (and still does)the steering shafts for Dodge trucks starting in 94).
The best replacement is a Borgeson WITH the rag joint. You want the rag to absorb vibration and noise and also add axial compliance.
If you use the Borgeson make sure you follow instructions and don't take any shortcuts. I believe they call for a drill spot or a flat for the set screw(s). Don't skip this step.

 

[JLEONARD]

You can put stock parts in if you can overcome the spline size that our truck came with. When I "upgraded" my steering to RR, I used stock 1/2 Jeep XJ shaft with a stock Chevy C-10 half shaft. The XJ has a 3/4" spline end receiver on it, so if you're capable of fabricating / modifiying, you can make your own.

The spline is a 3/4 dia 36 tooth which is a "standard" spline but some will have a flat section in the female yoke that attches to the steering box. Any of the Chrysler/Dodge "truck" products with a rag joint should have the same hole spacing (I used to work for the company that made (and still does)the steering shafts for Dodge trucks starting in 94).

The best replacement is a Borgeson WITH the rag joint. You want the rag to absorb vibration and noise and also add axial compliance.

If you use the Borgeson make sure you follow instructions and don't take any shortcuts. I believe they call for a drill spot or a flat for the set screw(s). Don't skip this step.

 

[cerberusiam]

The rag joint is not the problem, the pot metal fake ujoint box on the steering box is the biggest issue. Replace it with a ujoint and the stock shaft is quite adequate.

 

[Nountaineer]

Thanks to NJTman and JLEONARD as well as the other responses. The Flaming River shaft on their site is more expensive than the Borgeson basic replacement and Geno's Garage has a $10 discount as compared to the Borgeson web site. I found that the Borgeson shaft has a minimum diameter of 3/4", as I recall. They may have increased the shaft diameter since the reported problems were occurring. Geno's has the rag joint for around $17 and $189 for the basic Borgeson shaft. I might just as well replace both items since this is a high mileage truck.

Thanks

 

[NJTman]

The rag joint is not the problem, the pot metal fake ujoint box on the steering box is the biggest issue. Replace it with a ujoint and the stock shaft is quite adequate.

You're correct. After re-reading your post, I realized you were talking about the slide tube / bucket of mud, sand and mouse poo that my truck used to have...



(they were very small mice)

 

[JLEONARD]

They may have increased the shaft diameter since the reported problems were occurring

Actually shaft diameter would not have anything to do with the two shafts (inner and outer) seperating. A shaft diameter increase would reduce rotational lash or "play" but would not be felt in these vehicles because everything else is a little sloppy. Dive a Corvette with two different shaft diameters and you might notice a difference if you are a "discerning driver".
Most likely the shaft seperated because either the installer did not lock the two shafts together properly or the shaft was expended too far (as in a lifted truck). At least that is my interpretation of what happened from what I read based on 20+ years of engineering in the steering shaft business.

 

[Nountaineer]

Thanks again for both of your responses. I am at the mercy of my inability to use proper terminology when describing this issue. I need to go and study my truck's shaft and then speak (write) more intelligently while describing it.

One of the posts that confused me was the one that said to replace the steering knuckle with a real u-joint and then use a stock steering shaft.

Concerning the Borgeson shaft diameter, I was trying to share what I had read elsewhere (in a post) as well as the Borgeson web site which was talking about minimum diameters that they use. I will take a good look at the shaft and then consider all of the advice that has been provided. I've been preoccupied with other issues.

 

[JLEONARD]

One of the posts that confused me was the one that said to replace the steering knuckle with a real u-joint and then use a stock steering shaft.

I believe what they were saying is that the rectangular looking piece that actually connects to the steering box input shaft is the problem part. Sometime that part is called a "knuckle" although the steering engineering guys call it a "pot joint". You could remove that crappy part and replace it with a single u joint from Borgeson or Flaming River if you can find the 3/4-36 spline to attach to the steering box as one side of the ujoint, and a plain round ID yoke on the other to attach (weld) to the existing shaft. (I think that is 3/4 dia but I don't have a truck to measure to be sure). Obviously the ujoint yokes would have to be steel. I know some companies use aluminum. You'd also have to measure to make sure the yokes would be long enough after you cut apart the old knuckle.

In my opinion you would be better off just going with a Borgeson. It is already engineered for your truck and a proven part. A steering shaft is a safelty critical part. If it fails you loose steering. Period.

 

[Nountaineer]

Thanks JLEONARD, Since I have already had a near head-on at 55 mph due to the steering, I certainly want to do it right. It is currently sitting with only the fire and theft coverage. I bought and used this diesel to tow an equipment trailer and need it back in operation. I have a 135 amp 120 volt wire feed welder and a stick welder so I should be able to do the repair.

 

[NJTman]

Thanks JLEONARD, Since I have already had a near head-on at 55 mph due to the steering, I certainly want to do it right. It is currently sitting with only the fire and theft coverage. I bought and used this diesel to tow an equipment trailer and need it back in operation. I have a 135 amp 120 volt wire feed welder and a stick welder so I should be able to do the repair.

Here's where you can buy the new U-joint, once you've cut off the old "pot joint"

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/steering-u-joints?tw=steering &sw=Steering U-Joints

 

[NJTman]

Thanks JLEONARD, Since I have already had a near head-on at 55 mph due to the steering, I certainly want to do it right. It is currently sitting with only the fire and theft coverage. I bought and used this diesel to tow an equipment trailer and need it back in operation. I have a 135 amp 120 volt wire feed welder and a stick welder so I should be able to do the repair.

Here's where you can buy the new U-joint, once you've cut off the old "pot joint"



http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/steering-u-joints?tw=steering &sw=Steering U-Joints

 

[JLEONARD]

Thanks JLEONARD, Since I have already had a near head-on at 55 mph due to the steering, I certainly want to do it right. It is currently sitting with only the fire and theft coverage. I bought and used this diesel to tow an equipment trailer and need it back in operation. I have a 135 amp 120 volt wire feed welder and a stick welder so I should be able to do the repair.

The comapny I worked for (I am now retired) would never accept just a weld on a connection either would the car companies. Therefore although I am sure you are a good welder, please consider adding some sort of mechanical redundancy when you make the attchment to the existing shaft. If it's a round connection you could thru bolt it or at least use a set screw going into a drill spot on the shaft. If it's DD then a light press fit will do.

Also and I'm sure you know this but I'll say it so others will know you should wrap the bearing section of the replacement ujoint with a wet rag when you do the welding so you don't boil the grease out of the bearings.

Good luck and show us some pics of the finished repair.