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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Steering Woes

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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission rear brake shoes

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Dave M said:
What track bar kit are you planning on going with? The 3rd gen bar is starting to sound real good but... . it's a bit costly for me right now.



I'll see if I can eliminate the wander by tightening up the "luke's Link" on mine. Can't get to it till Thursday.



I'll be interested in your results.



Dave



Finished the 3rd gen trackbar install today (didn't get the DSS installed because I may have a bad part). Took about 3 hours start to finish (not counting 3 hours go get the tools needed). On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd say this is about a 3 or 4 if you have the tools. Pretty straight forward once I figured out the pickle fork I was using was to small to go around the tie rod bolt(ended up using a 15/16 pickle fork). After I got the tie rod end off, I had to grind some on the tab. I'm not sure I got enough off to really make it flat; instead I just ground down the ridge so it wasn't so noticable. I didn't want to grind through the tab, figured that would be a bad thing. Only tough part was getting the trackbar aligned with the new bracket. Had to move the axle about 1 in to get the bolt in the bracket. Fortunately my son though to use a ratcheting cargo strap so it came together pretty easily. Since I had to pull the axle to get the trackbar aligned with the trackbar bracket, I'm curious to see if I get a tire wear problem. Test drive afterwards was uneventful didn't notice any pull to either the left or right but wasn't really concentrating on that since I hadn't read your last post. Next time I drive it, I specifically look and let you know. Truck seemed a bit more stable with less wander but it was pretty hard to tell. I still have a couple of in play in the steering wheel but before the install I had more like 4 or 5 in play so there seemed to be some improvement.
 
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Dave M said:
Update:



I sent an email today to the folks at "luke's Link" describing my problem and included a link to this thread. They called me back just a few hours after I sent the email and discussed the problem with me. All I can say is... That's great customer service! :D :cool: Oo.



They confirmed for me what Don Thuren said earlier (Thanks Don) that there should be ZERO play in that joint. They offered to send me for FREE the rebuild kit to add an extra shim washer. Extras came with the link but I haven't found what I did with them yet :rolleyes:. They gave me the dimensions for the washer and said I could get one at hardware store.



Since the link is rebuildable, they told me how to add a shim washer and tighten it up. Hopefully, tomorrow I should find out if this will cure my steering looseness. The spring (its just looks to me like a plastic type piece about 1 inch or so long) could have compressed enough to cause the looseness, since I never re-checked it again after the initial install of the link in July.



I'll post my results.



Dave





Are you using the Luke's Link only on the trackbar or do you have them on the tie rod ends also? If you have them on the tie rod ends do they scrape the wheels when making a sharp turn?
 
McLaughlin said:
Are you using the Luke's Link only on the trackbar or do you have them on the tie rod ends also? If you have them on the tie rod ends do they scrape the wheels when making a sharp turn?
Just using the Luke's link on the track bar. Tie rods are ok except I just replaced the LH tie rod (the rubber boot was cracked bad) when I replaced the Right tire last week.



Been driving around a few times today and the steering feels ok just not I stiff as I remembered it was back in July. Since I live in the mountains and all the roads are curvy its hard to judge whether its pulling to one side or wandering. I need to get in the flat lands on a straight road to tell better.



I assume you are using the Solid Steel track bar bracket with the 2003 bar that they make. At least with that bar you don't have to look to it as the problem now and check out other sources if you have a problem. Where did you get the bracket and bar from and how much cost?



I'd be interested in how much improvement the steering stabilizer (DSS) will make. If the Lukes llink stays tight I'll do the DSS next I think.



Dave
 
Dave M said:
I assume you are using the Solid Steel track bar bracket with the 2003 bar that they make. At least with that bar you don't have to look to it as the problem now and check out other sources if you have a problem. Where did you get the bracket and bar from and how much cost?



I'd be interested in how much improvement the steering stabilizer (DSS) will make. If the Lukes llink stays tight I'll do the DSS next I think.



Dave



Thanks.



I'm using the Solid Steel Track bar bracket and the factory 2003 bar. I talked to Rip, rip@sourceautomotive. biz, at Source Automotive, (503)654-9004 and he explained the the modification to me and suggested thtat I didn't need the adjustable track bar since my truck wasn't lifted.



I ordered the standard track bar from him for $225.



I had already ordered the trackbar bracket and DSS from XtremeDiesel for $143 and $152 respectively (shipping was free).



If I hadn't already order the brackets, I probably would have paid the extra cost and ordered everything from Rip; his customer service and delivery was outstanding.



I'm going to install the DSS next but I have to sort out a couple of questions regarding the DSS bearing.
 
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McLaughlin said:
Thanks.



I'm using the Solid Steel Track bar bracket and the factory 2003 bar. I talked to Rip, rip@sourceautomotive. biz, at Source Automotive, (503)654-9004 and he explained the the modification to me and suggested thtat I didn't need the adjustable track bar since my truck wasn't lifted.



I ordered the standard track bar from him for $225.



I had already ordered the trackbar bracket and DSS from XtremeDiesel for $143 and $152 respectively (shipping was free).



If I hadn't already order the brackets, I probably would have paid the extra cost and ordered everything from Rip; his customer service and delivery was outstanding.



I'm going to install the DSS next but I have to sort out a couple of questions regarding the DSS bearing.
Thank for replying. I used xtremediesel when I ordered my 4 in MBRP (I see you also have one). I agree with RIP having great service from what I've read here.



I'm thinking of a 2 inch lift later so I may get the adjustable bar... when I decide to go with a new bar. For now the Luke's Link appears to be tight so the DSS will be next item on my "Quest for Perfect Steering".



I'd like to hear how the DSS install goes and your impression on whether it makes a difference you can feel.



Thanks,

Dave
 
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Dave M said:
I'd be interested in how much improvement the steering stabilizer (DSS) will make. If the Lukes llink stays tight I'll do the DSS next I think.



Dave



Well the steering stabilizer(DSS) is installed. What a nice mod. Most people will have the tools except possibly a 1 5/16 socket and a 1 1/4 in deep socket. Took about 65 minutes from start to finish without any help. The most challenging two parts were holding up the sway bar and DSS while starting the new bolts and centering the steering sector shaft in the DSS hole. Neither was difficult just took some fiddling with to get everything right. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate this mod a 2 to 3 for difficulty (closer to 2). Only tool I didn't have was a 1 5/16 wrench to take off the original pitman arm nut (used a large adjustable wrench) .



Test drive later didn't produce any surprises. Both my daughter and I drove the truck and had thought the DSS noticeably tightened the steering response of the truck. Prior to installing the DSS I could move the steering wheel about 2 inches before starting a turn but now I can only turn the wheel about 1 inch. I know I still need to replace/fix the tie rod ends in the suspension system so I suspect the steering play will pretty much go away when I fix them.



This project originally started because a shop wanted to charge me $1000 to fix the tie rod ends and one ball joint. So far, I've spent about $700 for everything (3rd Gen track bar and bracket, DSS, and Luke's links) so I think I'm going to come out way ahead in the long run. Next step is to put Luke's Links on all the remaining tie rod ends.
 
Dave,

I had the same problems you are experiencing on my truck as well. I had to replace the Trackbar, rods and pitman arm multiple times and am on my forth steering gear. I finally got tired of it and replaced the all the rods, stabilizer, ball joints, springs, shocks and installed a DSS with 03 track bar. This seemed to have curred my problem (going on 8 months now). I am still running my reman box from dodge and should that go out again I will replace with on from PSC. I upgraded my tires and went on a road trip from Tulsa to Seattle. Brand new tires were ruined in that journey. Had to replace both front. Same wear as yours. I think my problem started when I started running large rubber at $200 a tire I couldn't afford to continue to chew threw them.
 
McLaughlin said:
Well the steering stabilizer(DSS) is installed. What a nice mod. ... ... ...



Test drive later didn't produce any surprises. Both my daughter and I drove the truck and had thought the DSS noticeably tightened the steering response of the truck. Prior to installing the DSS I could move the steering wheel about 2 inches before starting a turn but now I can only turn the wheel about 1 inch. ... ... ... .....
Great! Think the DSS will be my next mod. When the track bar gives me any more trouble... Its 2003 TB time for me. Thanks for responding. Let me know if any further developments occur.

jraker said:
Dave,

I had the same problems you are experiencing on my truck as well. I had to replace the Trackbar, rods and pitman arm multiple times and am on my forth steering gear. I finally got tired of it and replaced the all the rods, stabilizer, ball joints, springs, shocks and installed a DSS with 03 track bar. This seemed to have curred my problem (going on 8 months now). I am still running my reman box from dodge and should that go out again I will replace with on from PSC. I upgraded my tires and went on a road trip from Tulsa to Seattle. Brand new tires were ruined in that journey. Had to replace both front. Same wear as yours. I think my problem started when I started running large rubber at $200 a tire I couldn't afford to continue to chew threw them.
WOWE! Sounds like you been threw bad times with your front end. I plan on going with PSC box since mine is leaking. That means the Borgenson steering shafts will be next... Right? Geeez... Soome day it will be fixed. If I had to replace all the tie rods I'd just go with Thurens "Crossover Steering" here:



http://thurenfabrication.com/crossover.html



If I wear out another tire I'm going with cheap tires till its fixed.



Thanks all for the responses. Here's to finding the "Sweet Steering".



Dave
 
Finished the Luke's Links mod today. Put Luke's Links on both tie rod ends and both ends of the drag link. Working steady, but slowly, it took me 4 hours and 50 minutes to remove the bars connecting the pitman arm to the tie rod ends at the tire, install all four Luke's Links, and reinstall the bars. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 the hardest), I'd rate this a 4 if you have the tools. This isn't a difficult install just a bit tedious and the bars can be difficult to hold in position if you don't have a vice. According to the instructions, you can do the install using a vice, press or striking with a ball peen hammer. I found using the press is difficult if you don't have someone steadying the other end of the bar your working on. Using a vice it is much easier to get everything positioned. I ended up using both the press, the vice, and a hammer and it was relatively easy to get the tie rod stud removed from the bar.



Things to note when doing this install:



When grinding off the back side of the tie rod ends, I kept checking the spacing using the Luke's Link cap. As you grind the back of the tie rod ends, the instructions show a dashed line to indicate the outer edge of the plug. A couple of times, I didn't grind enough off, initially a line appeared on mine tie rod ends which I thought was the plug but it was actually the inside of the original ridge that circles the tie rod back surface. When I tried to get the stud out at the initial line it wouldn't budge. I found that as I ground the back side of the tie rod end down and approached the point where the Lukes Link Cap would slide on another line appeared. When this line appears around the entire tie rod end a sharp tap with the hammer will remove the stud. The key here is to constantly check as the back is evenly ground down until the Luke's Link Cap is just ready to slide on, just before you can slide on the cap you should see the plug line.



When initially setting up nylon bushing, large spring, and the urethane spring, you are to have 3/16 in showing above the back of the tie rod end. I cut a wood wedge at the point where it was 3/16 in thick and used that as a gauge. That way I could repeatedly get the same measurement distance.



I had to grind between 1/8 in and 1/4 in off the urethane spring. I ended up slipping the urethane spring onto a bolt and than putting the bolt into the vice. Since the urethane spring was tight on the bolt, I was able to grind the spring down fairly easily. NOTE: When grinding the urethane spring you will see a ridge appear that looks a lot like soft cheese, about the same consistency as RTV. DO NOT brush this off with you fingers as soon as you stop grinding. Just as the stuff looks like soft cheese, it is also HOT like hot/soft cheese and it also STICKS like hot/soft cheese :eek: :{ .



The reinstallation of the bars was pretty easy but the tie rod ends didn't line up so I had to move the steering wheel back and forth (even though I didn't change any of the length adjustments). I actually got someone else to turn the steering wheel while I fit the tie rod studs into their holes. In retrospect, I put the tie rod stud in the pitman arm first and than had to move the steering wheel in get the tie rod studs in each wheel individually. I suspect it might have been easier to put the tie rod studs in the wheels first and then put the tie rod stud in the pitman arm. I finished by torquing the studs to 60 ft/lbs and then tightening the castle nuts enough to put the cotter pins back in.



Tools I used:



Socket set: metric and SAE, torque wrench, pipe wrench, pliers, pickle fork, side grinder, vice, 12 ton press, grease gun and a wood wedge.



Driving impression: Just took a short drive and I didn't notice a lot of improvement (but then, my steering was pretty tight to start with after the DSS and 3rd gen track bar :) ) prior to the install I had about 1 to 2 in play in the steering. It is really hard to tell, but I think the play in my steering wheel is less then 1 in. Overall, I'd make this mod again since I had a couple of loose tie rod ends anyhow.



Over the last two weeks, I have installed the 3rd Gen trackbar mod, the DSS steering stabilizer, and the Luke's Links. In my case, the 3rd Gen trackbar mod made the most difference to the steering system. The DSS had the next largest effect and the Luke's Links had the least effect. I suspect how much effect each will have on a particular truck will vary depending on what parts have the most wear. Bottom line is that I would not hesitate to install any of these upgrades as they all improved the steering of my truck.
 
Mclaughlin::



Great writeup on lukes Link install!. It will be very helpfull to others who decide to do that. I just did the Luke's Link on the track bar. For those who decide do do this here is a link I used that has step by step instructions with about 20 pics of the Luke's Link install on a track bar. I should of put on sooner for you Mclaughlin..... sorry I just remembered this. The site is www.ramchargercentral.com. Go to the "How to's" section and scroll down to the 15Th one called "Lukes Link track bar installation on 94-02 Ram". Here is the link:



http://ramchargercentral.com/index.php?action=howtoshow;id=79



Its a great writeup with blow-by-blow pics.



Sounds like your truck has tight steering now! I'd like to do the DSS next on mine. If the track bar get loose again I'm getting a 2003 TB. Hopefully the caster bolt will not go loose again.



Thanks,

Dave
 
That was a great link. The illustrations were much better than what I would have done.



I'm debating on what to do with the old track bar. Thinking about getting another Luke's Link, installing it on the track bar and then selling all as a unit. I suspect someone out there doesn't have all the tools or time needed to do the trackbar mod and would be willing to pay a fair price.



Noticed you are using the Bilstein shocks. How do you like them? I'm assuming the Bilsteins are the OEM replacement version. Also how do you like the RS steering stabilizers? I noticed my steering stabilizer seems to still be good but am thinking of replacing it with a Ranchero anyway.
 
McLaughlin said:
I'm debating on what to do with the old track bar. Thinking about getting another Luke's Link, installing it on the track bar and then selling all as a unit.
I'd sell it for around $150. You can probably get an OEM MOOG bar for $160 (not sure on price... I'd check first) but your bar is rebuildable and the OEM isn't. Put it on TDR classified or EBAY.

McLaughlin said:
Noticed you are using the Bilstein shocks. How do you like them? I'm assuming the Bilsteins are the OEM replacement version.
Yes they are the OEM version... cost about $65 from www.summitracing.com I really like them. The ones I removed were Monroes all around. The old front Monroes were not too bad but the rears seemed worse. Even my wife has commented on the better ride with the Bilsteins. :rolleyes: I did not know when I replaced them if the old shocks were bad. I just figured its one less item to worry about for curing the "Death Wobble" I had. Made a big difference in handling and ride. They ride a little harsh at times (like going slow on our bumpy dirt road) but are great on the highway. If you have extra money I'd try the more expensive Bilsteins. :D
McLaughlin said:
Also how do you like the RS steering stabilizers? I noticed my steering stabilizer seems to still be good but am thinking of replacing it with a Ranchero anyway
I have 2 Ranch stabilizers also purchased from Summit and they really give a nice stiff feel to the steering. I think they can mask alot of looseness in the steering... which can be Good and Bad I guess. With 2 on the front it feels nice. I'd recommend them. Look at the earlier pics I posted and you will seem two red boots on the 2 rancho Stabilizers.



As I recall Rancho offered a Dual stabilizer bracket kit. Mine came with 2 on it since I biought this used. I've read about a TSB from Dodge to add a 2nd stabilizer but it was 95-96 I think. It probably still would work on the 97. I'll find the TSB and post it for you later. Got to run... catch you on TDR later guys. I love this site! :-laf



I'm still dreaming :rolleyes: of going to the Kore" suspension some day..... :cool: :D but the price is a little high :{ for me right now.



Dave
 
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Dave M said:
I'd sell it for around $150. You can probably get an OEM MOOG bar for $160 (not sure on price... I'd check first) but your bar is rebuildable and the OEM isn't. Put it on TDR classified or EBAY.



Dave



Thanks. I was figuring to price the moded track bar less then that. Just have to figure out what the Luke's Link will cost me. I believe it was between $55 and $60. Now that I have done a couple and have all the stuff I need I don't expect it will take but 1/2 hour or so to install the Luke's Link. Biggest reason is I don't want the old track bar around and hate to throw it away, to much stuff goes in the trash as it is.



I think I'll be replacing the shocks pretty soon. Don't have any good reason. Just an ongoing desire to improve the truck.
 
McLaughlin said:
Thanks. I was figuring to price the moded track bar less then that. Just have to figure out what the Luke's Link will cost me. I believe it was between $55 and $60. Now that I have done a couple and have all the stuff I need I don't expect it will take but 1/2 hour or so to install the Luke's Link. Biggest reason is I don't want the old track bar around and hate to throw it away, to much stuff goes in the trash as it is.



I think I'll be replacing the shocks pretty soon. Don't have any good reason. Just an ongoing desire to improve the truck.





I believe the link was $66. Not sure what shipping is. Yes. . once you've done the link it would be real easy to do the next one. I showed mine to the tire shop and they are now repairing the stack of 20 bars they had in the corner. Not sure what they are charging for it.



I went with Summit cause it was easy to order and they ship from Nevada to California in 2-3 days so I got it fast. Others have found Bilsteins as cheap as $57 but to me not worth shoppping for the difference. I got shocks, control arm bushings and sway bar bushings all from them.



Go with Bilsteins... you won't be sorry. Don't expect a Cadilliac ride but it does improve over the stock ride.



Dave
 
Dave M said:
As I recall Rancho offered a Dual stabilizer bracket kit. Mine came with 2 on it since I bought this used. I've read about a TSB from Dodge to add a 2nd stabilizer but it was 94-96 I think. It probably still would work on the 97.

Dave
Mclaughlin:

Here is the link I found for adding a 2nd steering stabilizer. This looks like what was done to my truck. The TSB is "TSB 10-05-96" titled "Shimmy after Striking a Bump or Pothole"



http://www.dodgeram.info/tsb/1996/19-05-96.htm



Dave
 
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Have you thought about a steering box brace? I had replaced tierod ends, ball joints, and just about everything that moves in the front end and still had the death wobble. I installed the steering box brace and fixed the problem. I now have thirty thousand miles on it and no more death wobble. The guy that builds these is in canada. You can contact him at ph- 306-842-4346 or at 306-842-3790

Hope this helps.
 
2Farr said:
Have you thought about a steering box brace? I had replaced tierod ends, ball joints, and just about everything that moves in the front end and still had the death wobble. I installed the steering box brace and fixed the problem. I now have thirty thousand miles on it and no more death wobble. The guy that builds these is in canada. You can contact him at ph- 306-842-4346 or at 306-842-3790

Hope this helps.
Steering box brace by DSS by www.solidsteel.biz is my next mod for steering. Rip at www,sourceautomotive.com sells them. Have not heard of that one. Who makes it?
 
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Dave M said:
Steering box brace by DSS by www.solidsteel.biz is my next mod for steering. Rip at www,sourceautomotive.com sells them. Have not heard of that one. Who makes it?



The first number--306-842-4346 was Darrins at Solidsteel. biz the second 306-842-3790 is Marvs at www.solidsteel.ca I hear Darrin has moved on to greener pastures but the company goes on without him, Marv is still there. The brackets from both are the same as far as I know, I don't know about the prices though you will have to check their web sites.
 
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MThorn said:
The first number--306-842-4346 was Darrins at Solidsteel. biz the second 306-842-3790 is Marvs at www.solidsteel.ca I hear Darrin has moved on to greener pastures but the company goes on without him, Marv is still there. The brackets from both are the same as far as I know, I don't know about the prices though you will have to check their web sites.
Hmmm... . So I guess they are essentially the same bracket.



Thanks for the info,



Dave
 
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Dave M said:
Hmmm... . So I guess they are essentially the same bracket.



Thanks for the info,



Dave



Yes, they seem to be the same. Apparently Marv and Darrin were business associates at one time but have gone their separate ways. The brackets seem to have been designed for trucks that haven't been raised. The bracket I put on my 97 was actually from Marv vice Darrin. It appears Rip sells (or is going to sell) a different bracket for raised trucks. It isn't clear to me the orignal bracket won't work for raised but the new bracket seems to add some additional flexibility. Only RIP or solidsteel. biz sell the adjustable 3rd Gen track bar as far as I know.
 
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