2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Steering Woes

[MAYoung]

Gentlemen:





I getting started on an overhaul project for the the front-end components of my 1998. 5 2500 Quadcab, 5 Speed NV4500, 8' Bed truck. The last big trip I made was a 525 mile, 14 hour trip to Southen California that included horse and trailer. The truck sailed over the Grapevine on I-5 above Los Angeles. With new tires, however, the play in the steering was noticeable. Consequently, I recently put the truck up on the rack. The track bar and tie rods are in serious need of replacement. I am starting with a third generation non-adjustable track bar from Dodge coupled with the track bar relacation bracket from Solid Steel Industries. I like this approach the best. The drag link and tie rods will come from Mopar. After that is accomplished, I will evaluate where I stand on the steering. The ball joints are ok but I want to further evaluate the steering box and steering shaft.





There are lots of good posts on the site for this isssue but I will try to take some meaningful pictures and post progress. I will be coming to the site for any problems that I may encounter.



Here is a recent picture of the truck. It is pretty much stock except for a DDRP for the lift pump and some pillar mounted gauges.

Oops. My truck is actually in the second picture. The vehicle in the first picture got such poor fuel economy that I had to unload it.



Regards,



M. A. Young

Fair Oaks, CA

 

[VolsFan]

good luck on getting the front end dialed in, takes some time and money. When I got my 01 around first of this year, the steering was terrible. First thing I did was rebuild all the tie rods with lukes links. I had them on my 99 and liked them, so I used them again on this truck. Then I got a redhead gearbox, which made a drastic improvement. Truck has a two inch lift up front, and had the moog track bar, so replaced that with an adjustable 3rd gen bar, and the truck handles like its on rails, amazing difference from when I first got it. Later on down the road Im gonna get tube style control arms with poly bushings, but stock ones are holding up fine for now.

 

[MAYoung]

Gentlemen:

I was just getting ready to order the track bar relocation kit and I already have a question: Will I have trouble fitting the non-adjustable track bar into the the new set up if the springs have sagged? (Remember, all of the stuff up front is as it came from the factory. ) I noticed in one post that someone had to actually place spacers under his axles because his springs had sagged.

The Law of Unintended Consequences Gawds are never far from the amateur mechanic.

Thanks,

M. Young

 

[cerberusiam]

No, the track bar will fit fine. If the springs sag too much it just messes up the ride and driving feel for the most part. The track bar length never changes until you lift it so much it pulls the fornt end out of line with the rear.

That being said, if you are going to level the truck with some good springs you might as well ante up for the adjustable track bar to be able to center the axle correctly.

 

[bry1216]

Hey M. Young,

I have the same factory rims as you do and it really throws off the speedometer, buy a GPS and you will be amazed by the real speed.

I have completed the DSS Steering Stabilizer and DSS New Solid Track Arm Kit. I have no need to raise the truck, so went with the non-adjustable track arm. This really tightens the steering, basically the steering box moves the frame and that is some of the drift. The stabilizer holds the steering box solid. Some guys in my area had their steering box crack the frame, this seems to be on raised trucks running off road. Don't forget to change the steering fluid.

Good luck.

 

[MAYoung]

Gentlemen:

Update, Monday, March 18, 2013

I just ordered the SSI track bar relocation kit from Source Automotive out of the Portland, OR area. I should have it by Thursday. I also checked the local Dodge dealer (Folsom Lake Dodge) and they have two 3rd generation track bars in stock. Those track bars are a massive piece of metal. However, the fact that they have two in stock and all have recent ship dates from a Mopar parts warehouse tells me that they have frequent demand for these bars on the third generation trucks.

Since I am a frequent customer at the Dodge dealer, I am used to their parts stocking patterns. If they do not have the part at the dealer, they get parts from their warehouses in Ontario, CA or Portland, OR, usually overnight. Unusual parts have to come from Michigan and take about a week. (BTW, I have the Folsom Lake Dodge parts group to be very supportive in solving parts issues although I can't always say that I like the price points. I am amazed how they can get parts so quickly if you order a part by 12:00 noon. I usually have the part by the next day. ) Even with the higher prices, I would rather have a quality part available at a price than no part at all.

M. A. Young
Fair Oaks, CA

 

[fest3er]

If you have over 100K miles or so on your truck, do think about replacing at least the front bushings. My '98 was kind-of all over the road even with a new steering gear and an SSI stabilizer installed. After the bushing were replaced, the truck steered straight and true with nearly no wander.



You can't test the suspension bushings with a crowbar. You kind-of have to accept that, at over 100k miles, they're worn. And at over 200k miles, they're almost certainly worn out.

 

[cerberusiam]

The only reason the dealer has them is they don't service the bushings. A delaer replaces the whole track bar instead of bushings which can be done on the 3rd gen track bar.

 

[MAYoung]

Mr. Murphy:

Forgive my ignorance, but which bushings are you referring to? The new track bar comes with new bushings installed. My plan is to replace the tie rods and drag link so where else do I have to look?

Also on mph for truck, I have never noticed much error in the speedometer. But then I don't notice a great many things on this truck.

M. A. Young
Fair Oaks, CA

 

[cerberusiam]

Yes, the track bar has bushings and when they wear out you will want new ones to stop the wandering. Dealer does not service the bushings, they sell you a whole new track bar. Thats why they have them in stock and recent manufacture.

 

[MAYoung]

Gentlemen:

Update: Saturday, March 23, 2013

I finished installing the SSI relocation kit along with a third generation trackbar on Thursday. It took me about four hours with no real major issues. I did have a small problem with aligning the bushing hole to the relocation plate--it was out by about 1/32" but I simply loosened up the bolts and re-torqued them to the assigned the values.

My overall impression of the install is that it is ok. I never had the death wobble so I am not sure that I corrected anything. The old trackbar was in serious need of replacement, however.

How does it drive? I have detected zero-point-zero change in steering and handling qualities. I kind of expected that given the 239,000 miles on all components in the front end. I suspect that the steering box is the main culprit. I had to start somewhere.

I took lots of pictures so I will post them later.

I was going to put on new tie rods for the truck next but I may jump to the steering box and shaft. I suspect that this will be a continuing effort until I get it close to being right.

Regards,

M. A. Young
Fair Oaks, CA

 

[ioli]

M. Young,



Love the pic of the RAPTOR. Them birds have come a long way since 1972. Last birds I loaded was Phantom F-4E with slants and F-15A Eagle. My 2001. 5 Dodge quadcab CTD I bought new now has 140,000 miles, and the steering has play in it, power steering pump has issues and steering box seals weeping. My wife's 2006 Dodge quadcab CTD DRW I bought new has much improved front end components compared to mine it now has 118,000 miles and still steers great no play no problems. Been doing a lot of reseach and reading on that subject for upgrading the front end on the 2001. 5, steering components, pump, box, tie rods, track bar, ball joints, etc, as well as cooling system upgrade and fuel line system upgrade. I put a DDRP on two years ago when the orginal carter lift pump failed with 122,000 miles. Will be doing what you have done so far very soon. Been saving $ to start buying parts and get them shipped up here to Middletown, CA. Its going to be expensive, but well worth it when its done. I work up at the Geysers electric power generation plants in the Mayacmas mountains and there are a lot of roads with switch backs here which work the frame and steering components hard. Will be looking for your pics. I will be taking pics from beginning to end when I perform my upgrades and update the forum on progress. Friday, I and a friend who also has a 2001. 5 Dodge quadcab CTD will be installing a DDRP and Vulcan fuel pump relocation kit on his rig. Take care, Vince.

 

[fest3er]

Mr. Murphy:



Forgive my ignorance, but which bushings are you referring to? The new track bar comes with new bushings installed. My plan is to replace the tie rods and drag link so where else do I have to look?

Sorry for not being clear. I refer to the bushings on the links that connect the front axle to the chassis.



Years ago, I installed an SSI steering stabilizer (puts a bearing on the bottom of the steering gear sector shaft, taking a large load off the internal bearings); it made a tremendous difference in steering: like driving a new truck.



A couple years ago the truck was again wandering all over. This time I (a friend, really) replaced all eight of those bushings. Once again, it was like driving a new truck. A year or so later, the sector shaft seal on the steering gear failed. All the P/S fluid puked out; I had *almost* enough fluid to get home. Those bearings were pretty much shot, but the SSI stabilizer kept it solid; I didn't notice any difference in steering after replacing the gear.



Upshot is those bushings have a lot to do with maintaining steering geometry. On a 4WD, they're usually well worn at 100K, and absolutely shot at 200k+ miles; mine had 275k on them. You can't hand-test them. You have to accept, on faith, that they should be replaced every 100k miles or so. Urethane bushings might last longer. Brass bushings may last longer yet, but they'll need periodic grease.



BTW, that gear was from Power Steering Specialist in OH (a respected rebuilder); I'd installed it 10-11 years earlier. I figured if it lasted that long, I'd buy another from them. And did.

 

[bry1216]

Gentlemen:



Update, Monday, March 18, 2013



I just ordered the SSI track bar relocation kit from Source Automotive out of the Portland, OR area. I should have it by Thursday. I also checked the local Dodge dealer (Folsom Lake Dodge) and they have two 3rd generation track bars in stock. Those track bars are a massive piece of metal. However, the fact that they have two in stock and all have recent ship dates from a Mopar parts warehouse tells me that they have frequent demand for these bars on the third generation trucks.



Since I am a frequent customer at the Dodge dealer, I am used to their parts stocking patterns. If they do not have the part at the dealer, they get parts from their warehouses in Ontario, CA or Portland, OR, usually overnight. Unusual parts have to come from Michigan and take about a week. (BTW, I have the Folsom Lake Dodge parts group to be very supportive in solving parts issues although I can't always say that I like the price points. I am amazed how they can get parts so quickly if you order a part by 12:00 noon. I usually have the part by the next day. ) Even with the higher prices, I would rather have a quality part available at a price than no part at all.



M. A. Young

Fair Oaks, CA

My tire size is LT245/75/16 10ply on those same rims. GPS states: During two trips at 340 miles the speedo was at 388 miles. That is 12. 4% difference which can make a real 18. 5mpg look like 21mpg. I have considered 235/85/16 10ply.



My calculations show the circumferences inches:

LT245/75/16 = 95. 7 (9. 65 inches wide) 1999 Stock Steel Rims

LT265/75/16 = 99. 4 (10. 43 inches wide) 1999 Stock Mag Rims

LT235/85/16 = 99. 6 (9. 25 inches wide)



I think the 235's would give the best mpg with no or a very lite trailer.



Anybody ever gave it a test?

 

[Junior]

keep us posted. was looking into the borgeson steering upgrade box.

 

[FHerault]

Hello,



If your tie rods and drag link are shot, you could upgrade with the HD steering kit that was sold for 98 and 99 models.

I recently upgraded, the installation is a direct bolt on and the components seems very much stronger than the light duty parts. I know this has been discussed a lot of times, but it seems that all the people who have done the upgrade are very happy with it.

I've bought the parts from NAPA. The guy said me that they don't have Moog parts anymore because of too much return, but they have an other brand (do not remember the name... ) that is coming with a life warranty, and Master Ride,their economic brand. I choose the cheap one (because it's a lot of money !) and when I opened a box, I could read "Moog prob solver" written on a tie rod...

The only drawback seems to be that you can no longer use the steering damper, but my first test ride indicates that the steering is much more stronger now even without the damper.