Sticking Turbo on 2009 4500 C&C

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

It has been a while since I've posted. I have an intermittent problem with exhaust brake sticking closed. As you might suspect, EGTs rise fast, no power, and lots of smoke. It releases after a few seconds, but needless to say, I need to resolve this. Exhaust brake is never turned off, have around 35K miles on the truck, EGR and DPF been gone about two or three years. Does anyone have a link to the turbo cleaning instructions? I figure there is some carbon causing the slide to stick.

Thanks a bunch,

Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends, I found the TSP for cleaning the turbo. Guess I'll give it a try to see if it works. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has performed turbo cleaning on a 6.7L. I had ankle replacement surgery three weeks ago, so most likey won't be able to do this until January.

Cheers, Ron

 

[jtwcummins]

Mine started sticking at about 40K miles. Dealer cleaned and was still getting code so was replaced. Would happen more often when doing short rolling hills EB on and when you went back to the throttle after coming down short hill no power and EGT would climb fast. Down shift would shake it loose. Run with EB on all the time and is was infrequent so went until got the MIL. I thought the 09 on used a different design to fix this issue.

 

[Wiredawg]

Interesting part is it doesn't set a code. I need to check to see if the turbo has a cleaning port...the drilling tapping procedure is a little involved. I will certainly post my results.

 

[Wiredawg]

Team,

Woe is me...greed on Ebay retaught me a lesson last night: If you find something that is hard to find at a good price, don't barter...get it. I found the elusive Cummins Turbo cleaning kit Miller part #10142, slightly used for $199.98. Instead of buying, I offered $180. While awaiting decline offer, I received the lost the item email. So today, I bought a new one on-line for $388. Wahh. This needs to be done though. Ordered 4-cans of turbo cleaner for $4.44/can. By the time I'm back on my feet, I'll already have the special tools and materials to preform the turbo cleaning.

I priced turbos today before buying the cleaning kit. stock on cost $1,200. Don't want aftermarket as I want to be able to go all the way back to stock w/ EGR and DPF. Cleaning seems to be the best solution.

Take care, Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

True confessions...I have a great 5-Star dealer, Bluebonnet Dodge in New Braunfels TX. I called the svc dept and asked cost of turbo cleaning....they quoted $580, based upon the last time they performed it. I have $400 Miller tools turbo cleaning kit, bought used Miller turbo cleaning port installation kit $100, and $20 Mopar Turbo cleaning fluid.

The reason I didn't use the dealer is my truck has EGR/DPF removed. Not worried about the dealer knowing about it as I'm honest with them. It is because I need to remove the Smarty program and it will set numerous CEL codes stock and that interferes with their trouble shooting/repair efforts.

It had been a year (I think) since I posted the thread where I posted no discernible improvements of removing the EGR/DPF on a C&C truck. The DPF, EGR and emissions program are different on the C&C trucks than on the P/Us. Mine actually had a clean idle certification.

Bottom Line: I've seen about 2 mpg increase on the truck running solo combined. Running 75 MPH brings me back to the 11.2 MPG I saw before the mods. It's physics 12KLb truck with wind resistance has that impact. I see 8-9 MPG towing 18.8KLB 5er that is about a foot taller on my toy hauler than my former Travel Supreme. Aero dynamics is huge impact.

Just thought I'd share this insight as I'm always honest about the results of my projects, both good and bad and the implications of them as well.

I hope to be recovered enough from ankle replacement to complete the turbo cleaning service on my truck. The drilling the turbo housing cleaning port is like surgery. See y'all later.

Ron

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Wiredawg,

I am a newby and have followed your threads with great interest. I appreciate the information you have provided; it is convincing me to leave the truck alone as far as the emission system.

Based on your thread, as well as quite a few others, I always use the exhaust brake.

Hope your recovery of the ankle surgery moves along well.

 

[AH64ID]

I thought the cleaning required a StarScan to run a program that moves the vanes to insure the cleaning fluid gets where it needs to.

 

[Wiredawg]

There is a procedure to move the slide (vanes) for drilling (either open or closed and another manual procedure to operate the vane while applying the cleaning fluid. The Star Scan tool is not actually used cleaning, it is used for cleaning prep...the turbo warm up, running engine at 2100 RPM and actuating the turbo. Goal is to get turbo/soot preheated. My work around is to verify the actuator operates on 12V, Tap it w/ maint switch, manually close the vane to get engine temp up to 180'F. The turbo/soot will be hotter. Remove cleaning port plug, install cleaning tool, start engine, turn on cleaning fluid, for five minutes, shut off engine. Operate the exhaust brake ten times, then repeat the procedure two more times.

What do you think?

 

[Wiredawg]

Russell5000,

After I clean the turbo in Jan, I'm likely to reinstall the DPF and EGR. It wasn't a bad experiment and didn't cost much. There is some fuel savings, but not worth a big fine or getting stuck out of state trying to get maintenance on a non-compliant engine.

Thanks and take care too. Ron

 

[Bob4x4]

The cleaning procedure cycles the turbo more than 10-12 times.I doubt your procedure will have a very positive effect.
I think your money would have been better spent paying a turbo shop to remove and repair the turbo.Even with the correct scan tool procedure not all turbos will come back.

 

[Wiredawg]

Bob,
The Star tool doesn't cycle the EB in the TSB...that is accomplished manually after emptying each can of solvent by turning (cycling) the ignition switch to run position 10 times without starting. All the Star tool is doing is engaging (actuate) the EB with the engine running at 2100 RPM to adequately heat the soot and turbo. I believe I've accurately interpreted the work around on the Star Scanner and my procedure is OK, but I'll report it as well if it is not. Since I've never turned off my EB since I've owned the truck, there is a chance the turbo cleaning will have to be accomplished again.

BTW, when this procedure is accomplished with the DPF in place, it then has to be removed and cleaned after cleaning the turbo. All the crap rolls down hill :-D

Ron

 

[Bob4x4]

No,the procedure has been updated.It is not the same as the origional as written in the tsb.I have done way too many...........

Bob,
The Star tool doesn't cycle the EB in the TSB...that is accomplished manually after emptying each can of solvent by turning (cycling) the ignition switch to run position 10 times without starting. All the Star tool is doing is engaging (actuate) the EB with the engine running at 2100 RPM to adequately heat the soot and turbo. I believe I've accurately interpreted the work around on the Star Scanner and my procedure is OK, but I'll report it as well if it is not. Since I've never turned off my EB since I've owned the truck, there is a chance the turbo cleaning will have to be accomplished again.

 

[Wiredawg]

Bob,

Are you telling me the EB actuator wiring cannot be tapped w/ 12VDC and/or grd to allow manual operation for the engine warm up and to operate it ten times to scrape the soot off? If so, why? I appreciate your experience, dvice on this as well as a copy of the revised TSB.

Thanks for all the help with this? Ron

Ron

 

[AH64ID]

I think the controller is a PWM 5V signal.

 

[Wiredawg]

AH64ID,

I haven't researched the voltage yet. I still have another month to figure out all the details. I'll share my findings and share with all for a sanity check. I'm pretty invested in this. If Bob shows me conclusively this procedure cannot be accomplished without a Star Scan tool, I can still bring the truck to the dealer, remove the Smarty ME program, and let them perform the turbo cleaning maint with CEL codes. When they are done, I can reload the Smarty ME program and see if I can clear the CELs. Don't want a flash that prevents the ME program loading.

Thanks, Ron

 

[Bob4x4]

I don't think the tSB has changed just the software via tec connect. With out acess to wi tech you may be spinning your wheels. We do not have direct acess to the turbo controller it is trough the ECM. We have no reason to try what you are talking about. Good luck and I hope you don't experience any controller issues afterwards

 

[Wiredawg]

Bob,

Thanks. I will assess the electrical operation, but also reviewed removing the actuator from the turbo and can operate it manually, with some welding gloves of course. I should mention Bosch Tech Authority provided an updated download of the Service Manual CD. Great folks.

Other than the scan tool, is there any other advice or caution related to the turbo drilling/cleaning procedure? I anticipate about three to four hrs complete. Drilling/tapping the turbo appear to be the most intricate and time consuming. Won't have the messy DPF to remove and clean.

Thanks, Ron

 

[Bob4x4]

With the jig the drilling and tapping is relatively easy. a tap socket with extension makes the tapping much easier

 

[EB]

I recently replaced the turbo on my 07 cab and chassis. It does not have a clean out port on it. It is a "new", I'm sure a rebuilt turbo from Dodge. I was told that you could not put a clean out port on a cab and chassis turbo, don't know, that is what I was told. If the port is put on the flat spot on the top of the turbo, mine does not have one. I did not see a plug anywhere on it. Has anyone ever seen or put one on a C&C turbo? I had a long thread on my problem in the C&C section a few months ago. I'm commenting on this to possibly save you some problems if you tap it. You are right, the turbos are about $1200.