Still having some steering problems

[JBlomenberg]

I posted a month or so ago my woes getting my truck aligned after having some major front end work done.



To sum it up, I had upper and lower ball joints replaced, Right and Left Wheel Joints (U-joints) replaced, and Right and Left Wheel Hubs.



It took the alignment shop 4 tries to finally get the front end within specs. I put MOOG camber / caster adjust upper ball joints in, and the alignment shop wouldn't touch them to ajdust camber. So, a buddy and I adjusted it ourselves using a laser / digitial level, and hoped to get it within spec. Sure enough we did.



So, after the 4th and final time at the alignment shop, I thought I'd finally have a truck that would drive down the road well. WRONG.



The truck is very, VERY twitchy as I go down the road, and very sensitive to bump steer. It literally feels like something is loose, as I have what feels to be a lot of play in the steering wheel. Once upset by bump steer, lets say to the left, I have to move the wheel to about the 1 o'clock position before it reacts. Once it does, it then darts to the right. If I'm quick I can counter steer just a bit and prevent it swerving to the right. Same symptoms if it bump steers to the right. I have to turn the wheel left to about 11 o'clock.



It seems to be getting worse, to the point where on the interstate I'm wandering all over the place, and I'm really affected by the rutts in the right lane.



For what it is worth, the truck drove very well before this, although I have only had it for about 9 months.



Today I jacked up the front end, and supported the axle with stands. I push, pulled, hit, and did everything else to each wheel to see if I could find excessive play. Everything seems rock solid. I checked all bolts in the steering system from the steering box down to the trainling arm caster adjust eccentrics. Everything tight.



I took it to the dealer last week for the steering link recall, and everything was GTG.



So, I'm at a loss right now as to why the truck drives so poorly. I'm beginning to get concernd, as it seems like the percieved steering control is getting less and less.



Anythoughts? I'm almost wondering if my steering box is bad, causing the large dead zone when the wheel is centered. Any way to check or measure what the normal amount of steering play there should be with the truck on the ground? Would a bad steering box result in that much bump steer?

 

[pullya]

I think I remember that someone else was having some problems with MOOG adjustable's and the drivability of their truck. You might want to do a search. I think it was about a month ago.

Jay

 

[JBlomenberg]

Will do. By the way, the description of your truck seems to be much the same as mine!



Differense are dual pillar mount, Edge Mileage Ma, and don't have the lift or carpeted bed.

 

[pullya]

Of all the add ons for my truck the one that I like the best is the anti theft device! I hope you get your drivability issues worked out.

Jay

 

[JZellers]

It could be your steering box. I just replaced my ball joints with Carli uppers/Moog lowers. Handling was not right afterwards, just like you described so I went looking for more trouble. I found the inner tie rod ends were bad so I replaced them - no improvement. In fact, it was a little worse.



My steering box had a lot of play in it if you grabbed the pitman arm moved it up and down. However, it was like this before the ball joints and it didn't steer bad - it just pulled to the right slightly. I adjusted the steering box some (left a little play in the sector shaft) and it helped a lot. I'm going to take the rest of the play out to see if it improves some more. The steering is tight, although it didn't really feel loose before.



There is some minor movement ( I would have considered it normal) in my track bar bushings so I'm going to change to poly bushings next. I'm trying to figure out what makes the most difference in handling by doing one thing at a time. It appears, though, that the steering box adjustment made the most difference. I only have 41,000 on mine so I don't think it's wore out. I heard many complaints on these boxes coming adjusted too loose from the factory.



Keep us posted on what you find out.



Joe

 

[JBlomenberg]

Joe-



I'll have to check out the play in the steering box that you are describing.



-UPDATE-



My engineering degree got the best of me last night, as I was trying to figure out the problem. Here's the hypothesis I came up with: The offset was forward of the pivot point of the ball joint, so when any steering input (either desired or bump steer) came through, the reaction force on the wheel and steering assembly wanted to pull the wheel farther in the direction it was already turning.



The upper adjustable joints can basically be rotated a full 360 deg, so in theory, there are a couple of positions that will give you the necessary camber. The first is with the offset of the shaft pointing roughtly forward, and the second is 180 deg from that.



I think the best way to describe it is like the front castors on a shopping cart. If they are flipped around with the wheel forward, and then you push the cart forward, it wants to flip the wheel around so that it trails the pivot point. But when the wheels are trailing, it pushes pretty nicely.



Sure enough, both ball joints were set up with the offset towards the front. So, out came the digital laser level to get a baseline camber reading. I loosened up the ball joint nuts, removed the zirks, and rotated the uppers 180 deg from their original position (to where the offset was now to the rear). Final adjustments were made to get back to the desired camber measurements prior to adjustments.



The effect of this would be the shopping cart analogy, as well as a ton more caster, as I also moved the upper attachement point to the rear relative to the lower ball joint.



I test drove the truck, and an immediate improvement. So, just need to go back to the alignment shop one more time, and double check toe and caster, and verify my camber is in, and I think the problem may be solved. Lets hope anyway...

 

[bucket1]

sounds similar to my problems check out my post

 

[JBlomenberg]

Haven't read your post yet... but did the same thing fix it for you?

 

[JZellers]

Glad you found it! Mine's pretty good now that I took the rest of the slop out of the steering box. I ordered the the track bar bushings from Genos so once they come in I'll change them and then take it in for an alignment.

 

[bucket1]

ok replaced shocks,ball joints,track bar ,tie rods, steering shaft, steering box, put in brace for steering box. the truck still wanders. i think it should be tighter with all the new parts. steering box was from a1 i can still replace it under warranty. anyone get a bad one right out of the box? Looking for suggestions. controll arms maybe? thanks bill MY OLD 84 F350 DUMP TRUCK WITH WORN KINGPINS DRIVES BETTER! good tires, and alighnment ,to specs from tdr new stablizer. lifetime left and right sway bar stablizers

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[Cleve]

hey did this fix your problem on the darting my truck does exactly the same thing i replaced ball joints still did it..... very hard to keep on a true line with darting

 

[JBlomenberg]

Unfortunately I'm still getting a lot of wandering and darting. I'm going to have one other shop take a look at it now that pothole season is done, and if they can't fix it, then I'm likely to call Moog and ask for some of the non-adjustable replacements.

 

[Regcabguy]

Moog dissection.

Read Sage Carli's article on the dissection of a Moog bj. Very disturbing. I'd just bite the bullet and get his or at the very least get the XRF replacement bj's. I haven't read about any problems with the XRF's. They're only $249 for four usually. Dodge Ram Suspension, Dodge Suspension and Ford Super Duty Suspension Systems - Carli Suspension, Inc