still no 5th or 6th gears hot after repairs

[JonWilson]

2011 dodge 3500 4x4 120000 miles , checked cvi values all good , replaced valve body with new mopar and seemed to be fixed but when trans temp goes above 130 degrees it will no longer go into 5th or 6th gear, works beautiful until temp comes up, this is driving me nuts, it started happening shortly after the main sump filter split during winter driving, replaced both filters with mopar filters and inside of pan looks good , fluid good , no smells , no codes from tcm , scratching my head here and gonna start pulling hair out,..Does any one know which way to turn next,, Thanks for any info or direction given. xtra finding.. found that that speedometer reading from scanner does not coincide with speedometer reading on dash,, scanner is only reading erratically, where does scanner speedometer reading come from.. Trans has a new output sensor on driver side of case with no change,,, uuuggggg!!!

 

[transe]

Do you have a P0735 fault code? When it won't shift to 5th or 6th, does it shift from 1st gear straight to 4th gear?
If "yes" to the above, then you have a bad OD clutch. Time to pull the trans and inspect / repair the OD clutch pack.

 

[JonWilson]

Do you have a P0735 fault code? When it won't shift to 5th or 6th, does it shift from 1st gear straight to 4th gear?
If "yes" to the above, then you have a bad OD clutch. Time to pull the trans and inspect / repair the OD clutch pack.

There are no codes and it works beautifully until the trans temp reads 130 degrees on the gauge, then it will go in at times when it does go to those gears it is a solid shift and it has never gone into limp in , cvi's are good

 

[transe]

If there are no codes then I'm not sure what to tell you. No reason it should not shift into 5th or 6th. Maybe take a ride with a technician with a scan tool to see what the throttle reading is showing. Shift points are based on output RPM versus throttle opening. The output speed must be OK (since if the output RPM readings were wrong, you would be setting Gear Ratio Error codes). So I'm guessing maybe your throttle opening is reading so high that the 4-5 shift point is above the speed you're going (that is, the PCM thinks you're like at WOT all the time).

Will it make a 4-5 / 5-6 upshift if you back off the throttle?

 

[JonWilson]

If there are no codes then I'm not sure what to tell you. No reason it should not shift into 5th or 6th. Maybe take a ride with a technician with a scan tool to see what the throttle reading is showing. Shift points are based on output RPM versus throttle opening. The output speed must be OK (since if the output RPM readings were wrong, you would be setting Gear Ratio Error codes). So I'm guessing maybe your throttle opening is reading so high that the 4-5 shift point is above the speed you're going (that is, the PCM thinks you're like at WOT all the time).

Will it make a 4-5 / 5-6 upshift if you back off the throttle?

I will hook scanner to it again tonight and let you know what I find, Thank you for your input into this problem, it has me stumped so far, the temperature thing is what has me scratching my head, works great til temp hits 130 on the trans temp gauge. let the vehicle sit a half hour all is good again then temp go to 130 and back to its shenanigans again,,

 

[transe]

And it's a stock PCM, right? Maybe see if you can get the PCM reflashed. Perhaps something got corrupted in the calibration somehow?

 

[JonWilson]

And it's a stock PCM, right? Maybe see if you can get the PCM reflashed. Perhaps something got corrupted in the calibration somehow?

All stock everything ......this didnt start until it split the main sump filter a couple months ago. but no codes and cvi's are all in the middle of specified values

 

[JonWilson]

And it's a stock PCM, right? Maybe see if you can get the PCM reflashed. Perhaps something got corrupted in the calibration somehow?

Throttle readings are good , no change with letting up throttle,, Scanner vehicle speed reading is anywhere between 10 and 25 miles per hour different from dash speedo reading 10 mph scanner vs. 22 mph on dash . I am also getting a weird reading on scanner of transmission oil temperature of 300- 320 degrees but the trans sump temperature on scanner is reading 140 -158 degrees

 

[transe]

... getting a weird reading on scanner of transmission oil temperature of 300- 320 degrees but the trans sump temperature on scanner is reading 140 -158 degrees

So your scanner shows TWO different trans temperatures ("oil" temp of 300-320° and "sump" temp of 140-158°)? There is only one temp sensor in the 68RFE trans, so I'm not sure how you could get two different readings. And you said you had no codes set in the PCM, correct? Not even a P0218?

 

[JonWilson]

So your scanner shows TWO different trans temperatures ("oil" temp of 300-320° and "sump" temp of 140-158°)? There is only one temp sensor in the 68RFE trans, so I'm not sure how you could get two different readings. And you said you had no codes set in the PCM, correct? Not even a P0218?

there are no codes, ,I check after test drive and not shutting truck off, nothing there. like I was saying also brand new valve body installed monday, so temp sensor is part of solenoid pack, what do you think on the discrepancy on the speedo differences, the scanner also shows the slower speed of 10 to 25 mph difference with dash speedo even on the cruise control monitor and vehicle speed , vehicle is doing what dash speedo says not what scanner speedo says. Throttlen position is smooth and not maxed out. it sometimes when slowing to come to a stop 22-17 mph will then go into 5th then start downshifting normal til stopped. then starts in 1st and shifts normal until ready to go to 5th and 6th. It just winds the engine up. 2500 -3000 rpms at 60mph and above.

 

[transe]

I think you'll need to have a dealer tech make a recording (with their scan tool) of your "no 5th gear above 130° sump temp" behavior, and then get in touch with their technical support to see if someone at FCA can look at the data and figure out what's going on. Ask them to record engine speed, turbine (input) speed, output speed, current gear, target gear, ERS gear, TCC state, throttle angle, trans sump temperature, and ambient temp. That should be enough for them to work with.

 

[JonWilson]

I think you'll need to have a dealer tech make a recording (with their scan tool) of your "no 5th gear above 130° sump temp" behavior, and then get in touch with their technical support to see if someone at FCA can look at the data and figure out what's going on. Ask them to record engine speed, turbine (input) speed, output speed, current gear, target gear, ERS gear, TCC state, throttle angle, trans sump temperature, and ambient temp. That should be enough for them to work with.

My snapon solus scanner is giving me all that info and that is what is driving me crazy on this problem is nothing is real definitive as to where the issue is. I hate to pull this thing and tear it down for nothing but that may be where its headed to look directly at the od clutch pack,, Thank you for all your input on this

 

[transe]

Can you record some sample data on your SnapOn scan tool as you drive? Both "cold" (when it's shifting properly) and warm (when it won't shift into 5th)? And then maybe someone at FCA can compare the two and figure out what's going on?

I would NOT pull the trans until you have more definite proof that the problem is within the trans. If the OD clutch is slipping, then it should be setting a fault code. If it's not shifting into 5th because the PCM is never commanding it to shift to 5th, then the problem is with the controls, not the trans.

 

[JonWilson]

Can you record some sample data on your SnapOn scan tool as you drive? Both "cold" (when it's shifting properly) and warm (when it won't shift into 5th)? And then maybe someone at FCA can compare the two and figure out what's going on?

I would NOT pull the trans until you have more definite proof that the problem is within the trans. If the OD clutch is slipping, then it should be setting a fault code. If it's not shifting into 5th because the PCM is never commanding it to shift to 5th, then the problem is with the controls, not the trans.

I will do that, when I finally get this figured out I will be sure and let you know , that way we all get to learn new and exciting things, lol Thanks so much for your help

 

[JonWilson]

Can you record some sample data on your SnapOn scan tool as you drive? Both "cold" (when it's shifting properly) and warm (when it won't shift into 5th)? And then maybe someone at FCA can compare the two and figure out what's going on?

I would NOT pull the trans until you have more definite proof that the problem is within the trans. If the OD clutch is slipping, then it should be setting a fault code. If it's not shifting into 5th because the PCM is never commanding it to shift to 5th, then the problem is with the controls, not the trans.

Hello again, well took it to the dealer and after hours and hours of trying to get a diagnosis with no answer but the problem kept repeating itself, they have opened a STAR report and think now that it must have an internal issue, so it looks like it will be coming out soon to do some internal investigation, they did a reflash and checked everything they could think of but it all showed everything normal and no codes, the same as I was getting with my scanner and checking out, I will keep you posted when we finally get this thing figured out, Im sure someone sooner or later could run into this same issue so the more knowledge on it the better and Im always looking for more,

 

[sag2]

So I'm not totally clear, when you are watching the sump temp on the scan tool, does it suddenly jump from 130 to 300? When it happens does the desired gear stay at 4th when at highway speed? If your in 5th or 6th when the temp goes above 130 does it downshift to 4th? When its doing it are all the other shifts firm and lockup function different like it is in high temp strategy?

 

[JonWilson]

So I'm not totally clear, when you are watching the sump temp on the scan tool, does it suddenly jump from 130 to 300? When it happens does the desired gear stay at 4th when at highway speed? If your in 5th or 6th when the temp goes above 130 does it downshift to 4th? When its doing it are all the other shifts firm and lockup function different like it is in high temp strategy?[/

So I'm not totally clear, when you are watching the sump temp on the scan tool, does it suddenly jump from 130 to 300? When it happens does the desired gear stay at 4th when at highway speed? If your in 5th or 6th when the temp goes above 130 does it downshift to 4th? When its doing it are all the other shifts firm and lockup function different like it is in high temp strategy?

The sump temp shows pretty much inline with the gauge on dash, the scanner shows another temp reading also that shows extreme high temps, dealership is at a loss for cause on this also, when this acting up it will drop out of 6th into 5th , but if you slow down and speed up again it goes to 4th then no higher, until the truck sits an hour or two then it is fine again, I believe it is a sensed heat issue somewhere in the programming or some where but Im at loss as to where , trans shifts great thru all gears and works flawlessly until it doesn't, sometimes it will act up after 4 or 5 miles other times it takes 12-13 miles, but it always acts up.

 

[transe]

There is a measured trans sump temperature (from the thermistor inside the solenoid module), and there is a calculated trans sump temp reading (which I don't think dealer scan tools can normally read, but I could be wrong). If the thermistor craps out, the PCM will use the calculated sump temp instead of the thermistor reading.
Do you have any trans temp sensor faults? Can you get an the exact description of the two temps the dealer is reading?
It may be that the trans is going into "overheat mode," which normally happens when the sump temp hits 240°F. Can you see if there is any relationship between the temp readings and when it drops out of OD?

 

[JonWilson]

There is a measured trans sump temperature (from the thermistor inside the solenoid module), and there is a calculated trans sump temp reading (which I don't think dealer scan tools can normally read, but I could be wrong). If the thermistor craps out, the PCM will use the calculated sump temp instead of the thermistor reading.
Do you have any trans temp sensor faults? Can you get an the exact description of the two temps the dealer is reading?
It may be that the trans is going into "overheat mode," which normally happens when the sump temp hits 240°F. Can you see if there is any relationship between the temp readings and when it drops out of OD?

There is a measured trans sump temperature (from the thermistor inside the solenoid module), and there is a calculated trans sump temp reading (which I don't think dealer scan tools can normally read, but I could be wrong). If the thermistor craps out, the PCM will use the calculated sump temp instead of the thermistor reading.
Do you have any trans temp sensor faults? Can you get an the exact description of the two temps the dealer is reading?
It may be that the trans is going into "overheat mode," which normally happens when the sump temp hits 240°F. Can you see if there is any relationship between the temp readings and when it drops out of OD?

 

[JonWilson]

Still no codes, the original valve body and solenoid pack had the same issues and no codes as the new mopar valve body and solenoid pack, both thermistor s shouldn't be bad could they