stock torque converter

[SRehberg]

I am new to this forum and have a question regarding the stock transmission/ torque converter. I just recently purchased a new to me Alpenlite 27ft. 5th wheel, and now I am concerned about going down hill. From what I have read, an exhaust brake is a really nice addition, but chews up the stock torque converter (?) So if you don't have an exhaust brake, you go downhill in second gear and overheat the transmission (?) Sounds like a no winner for someone with a stock truck. Can the exhaust brake be safely used without one of the aftermarket torque converters?

Thanks.

 

[plntmgr]

I stay out of overdrive and give 1/4 " of throttle and can maintain a safe speed down hill. Sensible driving is a must at the top of a grade.



'98. 5 2500 Auto 354 60 gal Aero Tank Fun stuff



'01 32' Alpenlite

 

[amsoilman]

The only way an exhaust brake is going to work with the automatic trans is to be able to keep the (TCC) Torque Converter Clutch locked when you release the throttle. I have a switching mechanism that will do this on my 94 CTD. In my opinion, I would not want to go down any hill without one of these brakes, and if done like mine is, the fluid will not heat up when the TCC is locked.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Texas Diesel]

Couldnt be said better, you dont have to lose speed you havnt picked up.

Originally posted by plntmgr

Sensible driving is a must at the top of a grade.

 

[SRehberg]

Thanks for the reply, and I see at the bottom of your post that you have a BD Torque Lock; is this what you meant?

 

[Bob Wagner]

Do yourself a favor and check out www.dieseltrans.com



Bill K has a smart controller for you exhaust brake application



<b>DO NOT GO THE TORQUE LOK ROUTE</b>



Talk to Bill toll free 1-866-504-4002

 

[SRehberg]

Is the torque lock the device that goes on the side of the transmission or is it the electronic controller I have seen? I know there has been some discussion on the side mount one that actuates the throttle lever on the trans, but I don't know why it isn't desireable. Is the electronic controller better?



Thanks for all the help, as this is all new to me.

 

[Joe G.]

I've not seen either device. However, the Torque Loc causes the torque convertor clutch (TCC) to stay locked by maintaining a ground on the TCC solenoid. Without the Torque Loc the PCM puts a ground on the wire to the TCC solenoid to cause it to lock under certain conditions (usually above 50 MPH in OD). If these conditions change then the PCM removes the ground and the TCC unlocks. This happens if the transmission needs to shift down (stomp on the loud pedal). It also happens after a few seconds of idle throttle position. This situation is what makes an exhaust brake worthless for a stock auto trans set up. There are a couple of problems with forcing a lock on the TCC. First of all the trans will NOT shift down with the TCC locked. This means that you cannot stop without killing the engine lugging it in OD with the TCC locked. Now, the Torque Loc device senses when the speed drops below something like 30 MPH and unlocks. However, just before that happens you are lugging along in OD with no slippage. The other thing that happens because it will not shift down is that if you decide to excellerate hard, especially from low speed lugging, the TCC remains locked and may be overcome with the torque of the engine which can tear hell out of the TCC. Adios TC. Hello trans shop and big repair bill. There are two ways to cause the TCC to be locked in a coast condition so the exhaust brake will work. One is to install a manual switch to ground the wire to the TCC. The problem with this is that you have to pay attention to what you are doing or run a real risk of destroying your TC. The other way is to purchase the DTT smart controller which allows you to have a locked TCC for exhaust brake use, while being able to down shift properly. An extra added attraction is that the smart controller will force the TCC to be UNLOCKED in extreme throttle positions thus avoiding applying too much torque to the TCC. I recommend the smart controller. The Torque Loc will eventually thrash your TC. I use a manual lock switch with a floor button to disconnect it, but I have been using it so long that I avoid the TCC stress situations with the TCC locked without even thinking about it. I don't recommend that someone else do that. In my case if I do manage to thrash my TC I will NOT run to Bill K. with some sad story and try to get it replaced. I'm my own warranty station for this as well as the rest of my truck.

 

[SRehberg]

I think you pretty well said it all, and the Smart Controller sounds like the way to go, as I only have a totally stock unit, so the TC would probably be the fusible link if I hit the pedal hard. I think one could do it easily without thinking, so I need something watching over my actions in case I forget! I tried the Mystery switch and nearly tore the ****out of my trans, as it wouldn't unlock even with the switch off! Real surprise when I went to stop; sort of like a new driver learning on a clutch! That switch is now residing on my work bench cooling off, thinking over what it did. It sounded like a good idea, but the computer had a mind of its own.



I will check out Bill K. 's site on the smart controller.

 

[Joe G.]

Actually, even with a stock TC setup you can tear out the TCC with a BOMBed engine. The reason for that is that you can generate enuff torque in a less than WOT throttle position that it can overcome the holding power of the TCC. In a stock set up that won't happen until WOT so it will kick down. The smart controller will force the unlock at some point less than a kick down throttle position (it's adjustable). If you use a single pole double throw manual lock up switch you can force an unlock regardless of throttle position. Pulling a hill with a load with the TCC locked is NOT good for it! Thus the need to force an unlock. The smart controller is the best way to handle this.

 

[Bob Wagner]

SR Wow

you are lucky that you didn't hurt anyone with that mystery switch

 

[SlyBones]

SRehBerg,



I believe the device that mounts on the side of the transmission that plays with the throttle lever is what BD calls a Pressure-Loc.



These are different that the Torque-Lok, Auto-Lok or SmartController. They do different things. The electronic controllers are like Joe says and are used for keeping the TCC locked up for deceleration purposes. Go with the smartcontroller.



I did not read Joe's post enough to see if he commented on this. Assuming now that you have the TCC clutch locked with the controller, and the exhaust brake providing load against the clutch, your next problem is clutch holding power. There are many factors. One is line pressure. In the accelerating position that throttle lever causes the transmission to increase line pressure. However with your foot off the throttle the stock transmission provides very little line pressure. And therefore you can have TCC slipping problems with your exhaust brake. Causing similar problems and damage as too much power like mentioned above. So the Pressure-Loc is designed to get the transmission to increase line pressure when the throttle is off ( at idle ) and the brake is engaged.



The better solution is to get a aftermarket Valve Body. You will not only get increased line pressure at idle, but during acceleration and all that. Preferrably DTT.



The use of a Pressure-Loc on a stock transmission, properly combined with the ebrake and controller maybe of some use. A Pressure-loc on a stock transmission by itself is just a waste of money. A pressure-loc is not needed with a good aftermarket valve body.

 

[SRehberg]

I want to thank everyone for their replies, as I want to do the best thing possible for this trans, but as always, money figures into this as well. If you had to choose between a smart controller or a aftermarket valve body, which would offer the most bang for the buck to get started on? My line pressure has been turned up and has definetly firmed up the shifts, but otherwise, it is bone stock with the exception of the front clutch drum. It had the drum and seal replaced due to a delay in shift from 2nd to 3rd. I understand this was a common problem on the earlier Dodges, due to a seal/drum problem. When the check valve stuck, it fried the trans, so it has been rebuilt from stem to stern, with yr. 2000 parts. The truck now has 38,000miles.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[SlyBones]

If you not getting an exhaust brake, get the VB. A smartcontroller can be used w/o a brake. Gives at least the same braking effect as the manual guys have w/o a brake. But I prolly would not spend the money on the controller unless I intended on getting a ebrake too.



If you are getting the ebrake, then you need to have the controller as without it the ebrake is not doing much.



Hard choice, buy the wife a $2000 Pfaff sewing machine. Then she will let you get the whole thing at once. Worked for me.

 

[NETim]

Pfaff?

Pfaff!? My God, they're the "DuraMax" of sewing machines. Bernina's the only way to go!



Tim

 

[SRehberg]

Thanks for the reply. The VB is the way I'll probably go, as the exhaust brake and controller are a little out of the budget for the moment, especially with the holidays staring us in the face. Good idea about the sewing machine, but I don't think I can pull that off again, as the last time was the Cummins!



If I can get retarding going down hill similar to a stick, I would be more than happy, even if it didn't quite equal out. I just don't want to free wheel down with the trailer pushing me out over a ledge somewhere.

 

[SlyBones]

Re: Pfaff?

Originally posted by NETim

Pfaff!? My God, they're the "DuraMax" of sewing machines. Bernina's the only way to go!

Personally I dunno. She did shop 3 brands very carefully for several months. Ended up liking this one the best. Top model. Does not really matter. Qualifies for a trip to Abbotsford.



OK it was between the Bernina, Viking, and Pfaff. Also in there was Brother and one other. Said Bernina's were nice but expensive for the features you get. Mostly pro's go for these. Most sewing shows on TV and shops recommented the Viking or Pfaff as a good quality machine, good reputation and better feature/value for the money.

 

[SRehberg]

Does the aftermarket valve bodies come with the whole nine yards on them, that is, the solenoids, pressure regulator, sensor etc. ?