Stock Truck, Stock Tires, DEATH WOBBLE!!

[PGiannetto]

I have a 2005 Dodge 4x4 Quad Cab w/ cummins completely stock. Tires have been rotated & balanced. They are 'E' rated Michelins and they were at 70lbs. I have about 15,000 miles on truck. I took it into dealer because I had a slight vibration at times in the front end. They said it needed a stabilizer bar (on order) and lowered my front tire pressure to 50 psi. saturaday it happened while pulling a trailer with a tractor on it. I was going about 45 mph and hit a bump in the road. Holy Crap!! I had to completely stop in the road for it to stop. Now today doing about 75 on the freeway I hit some bumps & thought I was going to wreck it was so bad!! I had to pull over and completely stop! Now what do I do?? This is a stock truck with stock 'E' rated tires?? Has anyone Lemoned there truck for this??

 

[THUREN]

Don't feel like typing it all out again... . same thread





It's about 3 inches down on your screen right now, a post exactly like yours. Not being an ***** but the search works a-w-e-s-o-m-e!!!!! Ton's of info it that thread... .



Don Thuren...

 

[PHeadings]

All I would say is Warranty, Warranty, Warranty. Upper and Lower Ball, steering box, Stabilizer and shocks. Have them replaced!

 

[HOBrian]

Don't feel like typing it all out again... . same thread





It's about 3 inches down on your screen right now, a post exactly like yours. Not being an ***** but the search works a-w-e-s-o-m-e!!!!! Ton's of info it that thread... .



Don Thuren...

You can also read about all the fun I am having :{

 

[PGiannetto]

Thatks for replies. the reason I started a new thread is because 95% of trucks with " death wobble" have been lifted trucks with different size tires. Then most of the solutions have been "stay with stock" & " you need load range E tires". My point is I have a stock truck & stock tires. Anybody else having this problem with completey stock trucks? If so what cured it? thanks!

 

[DPKetchum]

Tire balance and front psi back where it should be and the new stablizer and go from there.

 

[THUREN]

Thatks for replies. the reason I started a new thread is because 95% of trucks with " death wobble" have been lifted trucks with different size tires. Then most of the solutions have been "stay with stock" & " you need load range E tires". My point is I have a stock truck & stock tires. Anybody else having this problem with completey stock trucks? If so what cured it? thanks!

Valid point...



Thing is, lifting a truck doesn't allways change the geometry a ton, but it might... I do see what you mean though...



I do want to add that a 3 inch taller D rated tire isn't much different than a heavy E rated smaller tire... ... . If it's out of round/ballance, it needs to be fixed...



I'm gonna' copy paste myself some out of the other thread as I does apply to you... My opinion in your case.....



#1, your tires are too far out of ballance or are defective... .



#2, Dodge screwed up and used rubber bushings in the trackbar...



Just my opinions...



Don Thuren... .

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"Let me post some things here as I've dealt with TONS of death wobble issues on various vehicles, but for this discussion, I'll focus on the Dodge front end...



Three things that you have to get before understanding where I'm coming from...



#1, the tires are USUALLY what get the death wobble going. It can be for various reasons but the tires ARE out of ballance/round if you get death wobble when you DON'T hit a bump to get it going. This may be a very small amount as there is no such thing as a perfectly ballanced tire but regardless, the tires are the MAIN thing to focus on. I've seen D rated and E rated tires create DW so, IMO, the tire "rating" doesn't really have to do with creating DW... A ballanced tire is a ballanced tire...



#2, If you get DW from hitting a large bump, it's most likely the shocks... I'da never thought this until recently when a customer got DW after installing leveling coils and nothing else. . He also had previously installed my trackbar... As we were chasing the DW, and I was building him some Fox shocks, he decided to go to 4wheel parts to get it checked out. . They said DUAL-STABILIZERS would fix it FOR-SURE!!! eeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhh, NOT!!!!!!!!! Anyway... . DW was the exact same. He also had the stock size E rated tire. So, he dealt with the DW hoping new tires would solve it, but before he had the tires on I finished his shocks. The shocks COMPLETELY fixed the DW. . I would have NEVER thought but it was so... The conclusion I came to is that this type of DW is created by the control arms moving "front-to-back" once a lift is put on. The bad shocks are getting the vibation to transmit into the steering...



#3. Now , and most important, the track bar is the one thing that can bring all of these factors to a minimum. If you have ANY noticable movement in the track bar it needs to be fixed along with getting the tires ballanced(speed related DW). If there is movement in the trackbar it DIRECTLY feeds back into the steering wheel in a HUGE amount. When DW is happening you can hold you steering wheel perfectly center, as most of the wobble is being forced out of the trackbar, and watch your tires go NUTS... This would be the reason the trackbar is so prone to being the main factor... They are MUCH more touchy than you think as . 25" of trackbar play is 5 degrees of tire angle, or, almost a 1/4 turn of the wheel... .



Don Thuren"

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[PGiannetto]

I have a question on the steering stablizer: is it for side to side or up & down motion? When I hit a bump my front wheels are bouncing up & down not side to side.

 

[PHeadings]

What feels like a up and down motion is really a side to side. It's like a bad wheel on a shoping cart. To much weight on the front to be up and down. Hang your head out the window next time it happens.

 

[HOBrian]

THUREN, that was very well written and very, very helpful Oo.

 

[JApol]

In my post on above mentioned thread I had the DW after snapping my stabilizer in two. Before breaking it and after replacement i have had no issues, I have the stock off road tires on mine.

 

[THUREN]

In my post on above mentioned thread I had the DW after snapping my stabilizer in two. Before breaking it and after replacement i have had no issues, I have the stock off road tires on mine.

That would make sence... but, it's not that simple although it seems it is. Here's why... .



The steering stabilizer is a strange deal when it comes down to it. IMO, it's there only to keep the steering wheel from getting yanked out of your hands so fast, when the tire gets wedged on a rock or something. I feel it SHOULD NOT be depended upon for anything more than that, but..... It will keep death wobble to a minimum when you are right at the point where you could get it, at any time, but the stabilizer is JUST ENOUGH help to keep it away. Many trucks with dual stabilizers still get DW so you can't say they are a fix.

Now, I like stabilizers but I build, and recomend, people build their truck up with no stabilizer, to make sure you don't get DW or any other vibes. Then add one after you know your truck is true. It gives you the confidence to know you have a larger buffer than most and to not worry...



Also, an "off the shelf" cheapie stabilizer has too low a nitrogen pressure to really dampen what a high quality shock can... Fox stabilizers work VERY well compared to a $25 one.....



This truck has no stabilizer, is freeway driven everyday, and in the world of tires, they are what would be considered the WORST ballancing brand tire out there... .



Don Thuren



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[PGiannetto]

The reason I said side to side was because my steering wheel is not moving at all. My truck is also going down the road in a straight line. I will try to look out the window at the tire but don't know if that would be possible.

 

[THUREN]

The reason I said side to side was because my steering wheel is not moving at all. My truck is also going down the road in a straight line. I will try to look out the window at the tire but don't know if that would be possible.

But it won't go away til you come to a stop? Sounds like Death wobble to me. It could be that you are getting some strange bounce/resonance with the shocks being to light duty to control the tires/axle but that would be a longshot... Can you predict when it will happen... Lemme search for a Death wobble video I know of...



This is MILD death wobble... . I'm gonna' have this on my site as an example. .



death wobble video

 

[PGiannetto]

yes you are right about it won't stopp until i stop the truck. I can't really predict it. I do know it took a bump in the road to set it off.

 

[THUREN]

yes you are right about it won't stopp until i stop the truck. I can't really predict it. I do know it took a bump in the road to set it off.

Hmmmmm...



This shouldn't be the case but it's easy enough to check..... Have someone turn the wheel, with the truck running, and see it you can see ANY movement in the trackbar... Just an idea...

 

[HOBrian]

Hmmmmm...



This shouldn't be the case but it's easy enough to check..... Have someone turn the wheel, with the truck running, and see it you can see ANY movement in the trackbar... Just an idea...

Man your good I was going to ask you how to check the track bar for movement. Thanks yet again Oo.

 

[PGiannetto]

I have inflated the front tires back to 70 psi. So far so good. I have very little vibration once in awhile, but no DW.

 

[PGiannetto]

It happened again! Tires are at 70psi. We were going down the freeway in the middle lanes with 5th wheel hooked up & family inside with me. Hit a small bump and all hell broke loose. There I was in the middle lane with a 30' trailer trying to pull over to the side so I could stop. The kids didn't know what was going on with the truck. Damn near caused a wreck. IS ANYONE FROM DODGE READING THIS!! THIS IS B. S. ! Finnally got pulled over and stopped. My wife was following me and could not believed what happened! She and everyone else saw the front end going side to side like crazy. Man this sucks!

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Hi Guys,

I just spent some time going through this whole post. There were a few good points made by Don Thuren. There are a couple of things you also need to check when it comes to DW. I have tons of experience with it, having calls daily about help.

DW is an occurence of looseness of many parts. Not just one thing! You probably have some worn ball joints, possible hub failure, a worn tie rod end at the pitman arm, failed tires and a worn out steering stabilizer. Not one of these parts is in bad shape, just the combination of many that cause the wobble. Unfortunately, DC will not warranty any front end parts after 12,000 miles. Your dealer might do it for you but it could also be costly. Usually they try to change parts until it goes away. I had them do that on my truck when new. 6,000 miles and DW. They changed every part on the truck. This was way before I ever added suspension to my truck. The part that they finally replaced to get it cured was the steering box. Mine was a little loose. At one point, with a bent control arm and a real bad set of goodyears, I could fire off DW at will.

Now I have a new front diff, new ball joints, new steering box, KORE track bar, and custom suspension. No DW. Changing shocks will not fix it. Changing springs will not fix it. Changing tires will not fix it. It Is A series of bad Parts!!! I Guarantee it!

Do the test that Don was talking about. But don't only look at the Track Bar. Look at all steering joints, look at ball joints, look at the steering box. DW is not a suspension problem. It is steering and steering only. Can a crappy tire cause it? You bet! Will a good tire help? Maybe mask it. Give me a call if you want. I would be more than happy to help.



Greg DRC