stranded

[jnelson]

while drivihg west on i 40 in tennessee my truck died. i changed out fuel filter, and noticed lift pump not working. i had the truck towed to gary methews dodge in jackson tenn. i was curious if the truck would run without lift pump. i knew lift pump was working prior week when i changed fuel filter. all the dealer has orderd is a new lift pump. im stuck in motel with wife and kids until problem is fixed. any suggestions would be greatly appreicited.

 

[JWHays]

I had a '99 that had a bad lift pump for some time. I finally checked the pressure and it was zero. I know it was bad because the engine would cut out or stumble on left turns (and not because I'm a conservative)...

It would also seem to 'cycle' between 500 and 850 rpm.

I changed the LP and it ran fine.

To say I was lucky was understatement!!!



... John

 

[coobie]

while drivihg west on i 40 in tennessee my truck died. i changed out fuel filter, and noticed lift pump not working. i had the truck towed to gary methews dodge in jackson tenn. i was curious if the truck would run without lift pump. i knew lift pump was working prior week when i changed fuel filter. all the dealer has orderd is a new lift pump. im stuck in motel with wife and kids until problem is fixed. any suggestions would be greatly appreicited.

Sorry to hear about your truck being down. I would go with the Fass system and get rid of the stock lift pump. Hope all goes well for you and your family. coobie

 

[rbattelle]

That stinks! Nothing worse than a vehicle that leaves you stranded, except one that leaves you AND the family stranded.



The dealer will be installing an in-tank pump. Ot might be more reliable. The downside is that there's no possibility of carrying a spare that can be changed out on the road.



-Ryan

 

[jnelson]

It was just the lift pump. $275 wrecker fee for 11 miles - Mann wrecker service Jackson Tenn. , $638 for in tank lift pump, $204 for room (4 days), $200+- for food.



$1317 lift pump. But were home now!!

 

[radar doctor]

I was going to order a LED KIT that was to tell me that I had low Fuel Pressure at the FUEL FILTER... . in my 03... . However the guy at GENO'S told me that since i had a 03 with the new High Pressure System i didn't need the LED unit as the Lift Pump was for only filling the Fuel Filter and the Injector Pump would get all the fuel it needed..... NOW, WHO is right???where can i get info that tells me that a LIFT PUMP is not needed for the INJECTOR Pump?? I'm CONFUSED ,,, HELP ME OUT????? DOC

 

[rbattelle]

However the guy at GENO'S told me that since i had a 03 with the new High Pressure System i didn't need the LED unit as the Lift Pump was for only filling the Fuel Filter and the Injector Pump would get all the fuel it needed.....

I'm afraid whoever told you this was wrong. Without a lift pump your truck will not run. Well, at least it won't run very long. Just like the 2nd gen trucks, if you're pulling your fuel pressure down to 0 that is not good for your injector pump.



-Ryan

 

[Diesel Nut]

I was told, I think on this site, that the European version of the ISBe doesn't even have a lift pump. And genos also told me I didn't need a FP gauge, but I bought it anyways.

 

[rbattelle]

I was told, I think on this site, that the European version of the ISBe doesn't even have a lift pump.

Actually, I think the industrial version (ie the "normal" version) of the engine requires no lift pump. BUT, the difference is the fuel tank is much closer to the engine. It's also possible that the fuel tank is mounted above the engine so gravity takes care of the lift pump duty.



I get the impression that the engine-to-fuel tank distance (upwards of 10 ft on a SWB model) on our trucks is much more than on "normal" applications of the ISB... especially those with a LWB model. Anyone know if that's a realistic belief?



Where's the fuel tank relative to the engine on a UPS truck?



-Ryan

 

[radar doctor]

Thanks a lot Guy's ,,,Appreciate your input,,, Hey RB do you have a FP Gage in your Truck??? Doc

 

[Coolslice]

Actually, I think the industrial version (ie the "normal" version) of the engine requires no lift pump. BUT, the difference is the fuel tank is much closer to the engine. It's also possible that the fuel tank is mounted above the engine so gravity takes care of the lift pump duty.



I get the impression that the engine-to-fuel tank distance (upwards of 10 ft on a SWB model) on our trucks is much more than on "normal" applications of the ISB... especially those with a LWB model. Anyone know if that's a realistic belief?



Where's the fuel tank relative to the engine on a UPS truck?



-Ryan

Not all of them. I drove a Freightliner W-800 for FedEx and they all had the 5. 9. They had PLENTY of LP failures, and IP problems. The tank was below the engine and approx the same distance from the engine. . Aside from those problems, my truck loved to break fuel lines. . I was well aware of the 5. 9 fuel system blues long before I ever owned a Dodge CTD. :-laf

 

[steved]

So, what I'm hearing is that if the lift pump goes out, the truck will quit running immediately??? Unlike the 2nd gens that will run until it burns the IP up... or am I missing something??



If it will still run without the LP for a short while, ok, but if it just dies as soon as the lift pump fails?????



And someone better get Geno's up to speed as I agree with the previous posts... they state that because the IP is mechanical (not electrical) you will not hurt the IP if the LP fails, and therefore don't need a fuel pressure guage. Since that LP is the same as the previous (like second Gens), I'll be getting them for a 99 truck (from Cummins)!!! Heck with going to an in-tank pump (how long will that last??).



steved

 

[rbattelle]

So, what I'm hearing is that if the lift pump goes out, the truck will quit running immediately??? Unlike the 2nd gens that will run until it burns the IP up... or am I missing something??



If it will still run without the LP for a short while, ok, but if it just dies as soon as the lift pump fails?????



And someone better get Geno's up to speed as I agree with the previous posts... they state that because the IP is mechanical (not electrical) you will not hurt the IP if the LP fails, and therefore don't need a fuel pressure guage. Since that LP is the same as the previous (like second Gens), I'll be getting them for a 99 truck (from Cummins)!!! Heck with going to an in-tank pump (how long will that last??).

If the LP fails, meaning it just instantly stops rotating, the engine will stall within a few seconds. But the real problem is an LP that gradually loses flow over time - a condition that can destroy the CP-3 over time (just like a 2nd gen). Minimum spec in 2003-2004 was 38 GPH... not sure about 2004. 5-up.



The LP is NOT the same as in previous years!! It's a whole different design that mounts to the backside of the filter canister. In my opinion, the best way to replace it is to install an aftermarket pump back by the tank. The Holley Blue pump seems to be just the right pressure/flow. The problem with this is, it takes some mechanical saavy to be able to successfully plan and execute such a change and keep the truck reliable. You DON'T want to goober it up because you run the very real risk of leaving yourself stranded.



The other option, of course, would be using a FASS. There are mixed opinions on the quality/reliability of the FASS arrangement; a search on FASS turns up at least a couple days worth of reading.



If your pump fails and you take it to Dodge they will retrofit the truck with an in-tank pump. There are also mixed opinions on this option. On the one hand, the new pump *might* be reliable. On the other hand, if it's not reliable there is absolutely no way to make a roadside repair.



Choose your fate!



Doc - yes, I do have a FP gauge. I actually built a custom low pressure fuel system (threw away the Dodge system except for the filter canister). I incorporated a digital fuel pressure gauge just before the CP-3.



-Ryan

 

[radar doctor]

thanks RB,Guess ill put that LED from Geno's in somewhere. I understand it lights when the fuel pressure goes LOW say below 5 lbs ,, Not sure about that figure... . was wondering if you knew of a opening in the fire wall or in the floor board that i could get a coax threw to my CB??? I have a 03... .

 

[rbattelle]

was wondering if you knew of a opening in the fire wall or in the floor board that i could get a coax threw to my CB??? I have a 03... .

Check the area behind the pedals inside the cab. There should be an unused rubber or plastic plug that you can poke a hole in for your cable.



-Ryan

 

[dmurdock]

I really think the in-tank pump will be extremely reliable. The whole problem with lift pumps in the past have not been the pump, but where it is and the fact it is sucking fuel vs pushing it. If you've ever pulled one of the stockers apart (I did on my 2001), you will see they are actually pretty high quality pumps. However, it is also easy to see they were designed as pushers and wanted positive pressure on the inlet side... something they did not get where they were installed.

 

[CoastyAV8R]

I thought the 3rd gen CTD used the same injection pump/system as the Chevy Duramax and that the Duramax doesn't use a lift pump. I was under the impression that a dead lift pump wouldn't cause this truck to not run. Reading a few posts about this, I guess that's not the case.



I would rather have a fuel pressure gauge than a light just because you can see a pump going bad with a gauge more likely than you can with a light that comes on at a predetermined value. In my 01' you could watch the pump get worse and worse and if I was getting ready to go on a trip and it wasn't up to my spec, I changed it out.

 

[rbattelle]

I thought the 3rd gen CTD used the same injection pump/system as the Chevy Duramax and that the Duramax doesn't use a lift pump. I was under the impression that a dead lift pump wouldn't cause this truck to not run.

It's true the Duramax uses a similar (not identical) system. I think they do have a CP-3. It's true they don't have a lift pump. BUT, since we do have a lift pump if it stops functioning it becomes a blockage that will not allow the CP-3 to suck fuel through it.



I'm not sure if the Dodge will run if you removed the LP and replaced it with a straight-through fitting. You'd have to put in a hand pump for priming, though.



Reliability of the in-tank pumps remains to be seen. We've already seen at least 1 failure here.



-Ryan

 

[steved]

Thanks guys... the more I read about these CRD truck, the more I'm liking the idea of having a 1953 truck to drive around. I don't think I'm going to own this truck very long... it has been nothing but trouble since I bought it.



I ran my cb coax through a body plug under the driver's seat... it simply pops out, you will need to notch it for the coax to reinstall it.



steved