Strange new problem

[illflem]

While in the middle of a 2800 mile trip last week my 2500 out of the blue started stumbling then died. Luckily there was a place to pull over. This happened on a pretty long uphill grade. I checked all the obvious things,fuel lines,intake hoses etc. Fuel filter was new before the trip,I was using only Flying J fuel.
Truck started right up and ran fine 15 miles to the next uphill then did the same thing. No place to pull over this time,but I was on Hwy 50 in Nevada,so no big deal. Checked every thing again,all looked fine. My fuel pressure gauge was reading it's normal 22 psi when this happened,EGTs and boost were also normal,I got 24 mpg out of this tank. Started right up again and ran fine for the next 900 miles,some of which was over much steeper longer grades. Of course I was cringing on every hill waiting for it to happen again but it never did.
Anyone have an idea what could be happening?This one has me not trusting my truck as much as I'd like.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(work truck)
95 3500,5 speed 3:54,BD E-brake,Driftwood,Banks&Psycotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(works harder truck)

 

[Joe G.]

When I saw the title of this and who posted it my natural thought was "what now, are we getting our legs pulled again?". Maybe not, so I'll take a hack at it. Bill, could you have picked up some water when you fueled up?

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Joe George
Eureka, CA

'95 2500 CC auto 4X4,3. 54,Combo EGT/boost guage,custom switch panel,PacBrake,TST #5,BD valve body,Automatic motorhome steps on both sides,Foldacover hard bed cover,Cummins chrome kit,Black steel grill guard,Front hitch receiver

 

[illflem]

No Joe,this one is real. I did open the filter drain the first time it happened,seemed like pure diesel to me. If it was water why only on the uphills?

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

Anyone know where the Suction pickup is in the fuel tank???

Im thinking maybe illflem has junk in the tank thats blocking the pickup strainer... . and maybe it will only do it on the uphills... . depending on where the junk and the strainer happen to be at the time... . Just an idea... #ad


PS... . Not a truck, but to illustrate the point above,
One of the guys had a locomotive the other day that would run fine til it got to Run 6... then it would just die.....
Cause... chunk of wood debris stuck in the tank pickup line... had enough fuel to make it to Run 6... but then after that... it was no-go... #ad


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"Shadows" 96' 2500 SLT, Reg Cab, 12V, 4x4, NV4500, 4. 10s, LB, LSD, Black Exterior w/chrome rockers, Camel/Tan Interior, Towing Pkg w/ Tekonsha electric brake controller, Walker Muffler, Kitty wandered off to the woods... K&N Filter--Silencer Ring gone,AFC opened up a bit, Optima Yellow-tops, 235/85/16 Michelin LTX A/Ts Other Upgrades pending $$$$ TO THE BOMB BAY!!!!!!!

 

[Joe G.]

I dunno Bill, but that's the only thing I could think of that would give you a hard time and then go away. Maybe some crud in the prefilter screen so that going up hill would mean that the lift pump had to work harder to strain the fuel thru the crud. Problem with that idea is that you had good fuel pressure all the time.

 

[radixr]

Bill,

Since you had good pressure at the injection pump, I would have to agree that you had some crap in that load of fuel and because of where the suction tube is located in the tank, you got a big slug of it going up hills. How many miles between the last fillup and the first time it acted up? Any misses at all other than when going up hills? Did you check for water after it ran that last 900 miles?

Dave

 

[illflem]

Dave,I don't think it was anything clogging because the fuel pressure stayed good,even while stumbling,my pressure sender is on the injection pump banjo bolt. I had used about 10 gallons out of a full tank(went 230 miles)the gauge was just starting to come off full,which is normal for this truck. Also I opened the bleed screw on the filter outlet the second time it happened with the engine restarted,good flow of air free diesel. Drained the filter after I got home and the truck sat overnight with only ¼ tank,this time into a glass jar,it looked like pure diesel to me.
I'm thinking this may be a heat related injection pump problem,but don't want to take a stab in the dark with a expensive replacement.
Since I don't keep my eye on the fuel pressure gauge the whole time I'm driving,I'm wondering if the overflow valve may have stuck open for an instant and started the problem.
I'm stumped for now,in many ways I wish the problem would come and stay,these intermittent problems can be a pain to diagnose.

[This message has been edited by illflem (edited 02-05-2001). ]

 

[Joe G.]

I kinda doubt the heat related problem idea because of "some of which was over much steeper longer grades. " If that was what it was it really should have happened later. If you EVER figure this one out, PLEASE let us know. Especially, us '95 owners.

 

[Deezul1]

Any chance it could be a fuel shutoff solenoid acting up, maybe bad connector?
Good Luck

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96 SLT Laramie CC 5spd, 3. 54, no muff, no cat, 5"turn down tip
. Member NRA/USPSA

 

[illflem]

Well I may have found part of the problem. I removed the sender for my fuel pres gauge and installed a 40# mechanical gauge. I got entirely different readings. Pressure was up to 30 but after driving for awhile the gauge started pulsating rapidly (probably did in the electric sender)and the average of the pulse was more like 18# and kept on dropping as I drove. Only went about 20 miles but was down to about 16-22 with the pulse swing. What do you guys think,lift pump or overflow valve?

 

[Joe G.]

I would think lift pump. From my own experience and reading other posts, the overflow value usually causes problems starting and at low speed.

 

[Jeff H]

I 1998 I had a injection pump fail. It would miss at around 75 mph. It would actually stall the engine. Then I fired it back up and ran fine. Then a few months later it acted up again. Now it was to the point I was stalling every few miles. After stalling out. It still would run fine for another few miles then stall out. When It started to miss you could here a fairly loud ticking noise from the injection pump. At a TDR meet last year I had mentioned my story to one of the mechanics that was there. He says he replaced a lot of injection pumps on the 95's. I had 61,000 miles on it when it failed. The dealer installed a reman and so far running fine with 140,000 miles on the truck.
It took about five calls to the dealer before he said warrenty would cover. That there is a story in itself and am not gonna go there.
I also was thinking I had ice or water in the fuel. Then thought maybe bad fuel or plugged filter. Nope just my luck it was the pump. Hope you don't have to go through that mess. If you do have a bad pump I saw some listed in the classifieds here in the TDR site.

 

[Cooker]

On my 96 I notice a rather loud ticking noise sometimes. It seems to happen more often after the truck had idled for a few minutes, and it doesn't happen very often. The truck doesn't seem to miss or run bad. I didn't think muck about it a first because it was not very often, but now I'm concerned. I haven't checked the fuel pressure yet. Any thoughts? Thanks

illflem, I didn't mean to jump in on your post, but as long as were talking about ticking noises.

 

[illflem]

Ryan,no problem,my truck as well as most of my tractors tick as well at times,it comes from the injection pump and seems to come and go without any other problems. I asked my JD mechanic about it and he said,"Those dam injection pumps change their tune every day,don't worry about it. " That's what I've done about it.

 

[Missouri Mule]

illflem,
Sounds like lift pump. I thought I read in a post that if you reach under and pinch off return line and pressure goes up the return fuel valve is bad.

But your symptoms seem to be similar to my ford van when its electric pumps would quit.

If you did not have low fuel pressure I would have quessed engine speed sensor or it's infamous connector. I have read a few letters to TDR with similar symptons where this connector was dirty or the pins were bent and caused stalling out and a few other things.

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Bill Thomas
Missouri Mule - 96 Wht 4X4 ST CC,5 spd, 3. 54, 8 ft bed, 1 ft high cheater boards.
99 Freightliner bl/wht FL60 ISB-5. 9 24v,215 hp,520 tq,6 spd, 3. 59 nsr,16 ft box, 19. 5 tires,Wt/gvw 11,000/23000

 

[Timinator]

Illflem,
Where did you install your fuel pressure sender? What kind are you using?

 

[illflem]

I was using a S-W 40# oil pressure gauge with the sender mounted to the injector pump banjo bolt. The sender went south probably due to the rapid pulsations,am now using a 40# mechanical gauge mounted from the same place with a gauge snuber to mellow out the pulses.

 

[illflem]

Eric,after reading some other posts and links here I realized that I had filled up with 27 gallons at a Texaco station right before my problem occurred,it was the only fill up on my trip that wasn't Flying-J,could there be a relationship here?Another thing is that 95% of the miles on my truck are from the farm tank,could it be that switching to OTR caused trouble?TPS is fine,truck stays in lock up when it's supposed to. My truck hasn't had the problem again in almost 1k miles now,but I still don't trust it.

I removed the banjo bolt and drilled and tapped a 1/8 pipe thread port on it,if you can drill for a pyro this is even easier because you can do it on the work bench. There is plenty of room to install a sender in the injection pump area but not in the bleed screw area of the fuel filter,the only other place you can take post filter measurements . Like I said in a post above my S-W sender went out due to the pulsing,which didn't show on the gauge,but showed big time on a mechanical gauge,in fact it pulsed so bad that it shook my dash and was louder than the Cummins!This is normal from what I understand. I solved the pulsing by installing a device called a gauge snuber on the banjo bolt($10 from an ag equipment dealer,they are used on sprayer gauges)it is just a male/female 1/8"coupling with a hair sized hole thru it,took all the pulses out. Spent $5 on an mechanical oil pressure gauge tubing kit,they are available in copper or plastic,I went with plastic. I used a 40 psi back connection liquid filled pressure gauge($12 from hardware store)made my own mounting bracket out of sheet aluminum. Installed the gauge on the lowest part of the dash next to the airbag module,even though I can't read the numbers from that distance(getting old I guess)but with the 40# gauge normal pressure has the needle pointing at 1 o'clock,I can still see that. The gauge has no lighting,but is no big deal because it isn't a gauge that needs to be looked at much. One thing this set up does is brings fuel into the cab,but what the heck,a mechanical oil pressure gauge like we've all used for years brings in oil,how many of us have had one leak,besides diesel isn't dangerous in the cab like gasoline would be. New set up works great,cost about $25 and two hours work. My truck took about 15 seconds of cranking after the install to purge air introduced by removing the banjo bolt,but ran fine after that.


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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(work truck)
95 3500,5 speed 3:54,BD E-brake,Driftwood,Banks&Psycotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(works harder truck)




[This message has been edited by illflem (edited 02-14-2001). ]

 

[The patriot]

Thanks Bill. I think I might do something like this next.
I feel you could never have too much info on whats going on under the hood.
On my 98, I have the cannister type fuel filter. On the cast alum top section, there is two or three areas that look like it was meant for 1/8" ports. I might drill and tap these. This would (hopefully) also tell me whan my fuel filter is getting clogged.
I just have to give it a better look the next time I do the fuel filter.
Eric

[This message has been edited by The patriot (edited 02-14-2001). ]

 

[The patriot]

My vote goes to the overflow valve. Pull the spring, and measure it. It should be . 500".
Put rags around the area, there are washers etc that you can easily loose.
Where did you get the gauges, and the banjo bolt hookup?
How much $$$ were they?
Eric
Ps maybe going uphill was just a coincidence??
Did you ever replace the TPS?

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98 Quad cab 4X4 2500 12 valve,5 speed,3. 54 rears, 8' bed. Michelin 275 75 16 lr-E. Boost and egt gauges but basicly stock except for a "properly adjusted" AFC. Cat in the garage. Uniden HR 2510, Texas Star 1200 amp. 63,000 Mi as of 1/27/01.
NRA life member. High power/IDPA.