Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Strange starting problem, Maybe?

[gtwitch]

My 99 has been running fine for years with minor problems here and there. Just recently, all of a sudden, It has gotten hard to start in the morning, cranks like no fuel, however plenty of fuel pressure (14 psi) VP side of the filter and voltage at the plenum heaters is both at 10. 5 vdc so the solenoids are both working, but there is 12. 3 at the battery connection going to the solenoids. I don't know if this is excessive voltage drop during the plenum heat cycle (22 or so seconds). . The starting symptom is long cranking at 50 F temperatures. I have not taken it to have codes looked at! Yet! As soon as it starts once, it is good to go for the rest of the day. . With hunting and snowmobiling comming, well you can see where I comming from. It has never cranked for more that 3 to 5 seconds unless it is -25 F and then might have to cycle plenum heat two or three times to start! 99 has 206k on it with one new Chips VP44 35k ago and one new Timbo APPS 20k ago and several lift pumps over the years and new batteries 2 years ago. Any insight--- anyone???



gtwitch in wyoming

 

[LNaugle]

crank or cam sensor... will get worse or quit all together... get codes checked and let us know...

 

[hcole]

When was the last time you changed the fuel filter? If it was around time of trouble then its getting air and the fuel is draining away from injectors overnite. Maybe a bad hose is allowing air and therefore drainback. It doesn't always show a big leak, just a damp spot where the air is getting in.

 

[gtwitch]

Update!! I changed the filters ( NAPA 3080 frame mount ahead of the pump) and stock filter on block this weekend and noticed no change in the starting probleml. I was reading Chip's troubleshooting guide and it is mentioned that there may be a problem if there is a cracked diaphram in the VP44, dont know if that might be the problem or not? I noticed that the fuel pressure don't come up instantly when the key is turned on and pump runs for about 8 to 10 seconds and shuts down while the plenum heaters cycle for their 24 seconds. After that , If I bump the starter and the pump runs for a longer 24 seconds the fuel pressure comes up to 15 or so and the engine starts right up, but, if I try to start with the fuel pressure at only 3 to 5, the engine will only crank and no start! Also if I shut down after a normal run on the road and then turn the key right back on to look at the fuel pressure guage, the fuel pressure will be gradually going down to 0 in about 8 to 10 seconds (normal I assume??) I was also wondering if the bypass valve on the VP44 might be letting too much go by, but the fuel pressure never goes below 10 WOT on an hard pull and truck runs great. Still looking for some hints on where else to look??



gtwitch in wyoming

 

[JR]

It sounds to me like you could have a slow leak in your fuel system. Double check all fittings and lines, start from the engine compartment and work your way back to the fuel tank. If anything looks damp, it could very well be your problem. I installed a new fuel pressure gauge sometime ago, and right after started having hard start problems. I didnt get the fitting at the gauge tight enough. If the truck sat for a lenght of time, it would take longer to start and fuel pressure would be slow coming up, just like you mentioned. While the fitting wasnt leaking fuel, it was just barely wet when I pulled the gauge back out to inspect it. I snugged it up just a touch more, havent had a problem since. The point of my story is it doesnt take much at all to introduce air into your system which will cause hard starts.

Gtwitch, I see your from Laramie. I used to live there too. Actually my brother, sister, and mom still do live there. They have a small cabin just a few miles from the Wycolo lodge, if you know where that is. I try to get out that way every few years, Im planning a trip this next summer. Maybe we could meet up for a few cold ones at the Cowboy, its been a few moons since Ive been there!

 

[gtwitch]

D4life, Yes I am a 50+ year resident of Laramie and lifelong Wyomingite! Grew up in the Wind River's on a Guest ranch Big Sandy Lodge, owned by my parents, came to Laramie to go to school and never left and I am retired from U of W Engineering College (but still working some) Name is George Twitchell 817 So 22nd St Laramie 82072



I just put a new fuel pressure sending unit on the top of the fuel filter canister and I will look there. 8 years ago I had a real weird one happen and it was a very slow drip along the frame so I pulled the tank and the fuel line that comes from the tank was abrated by dirt and gravel trapped in between the tank and line and it was pulling air and leaking very little. . I could not find a new line so I repaired that one with hard silver solder and put spiral plastic on the line when I put it all back, could be leaking there again. I read the troubleshooting guide on Blue Chip's site and he mentioned using a clear tygon tube to see if there was air in the line from the filter to the VP44. Sound like this might be the right track. Thanks!



gtwitch in wyoming

 

[JR]

Wow I feel like Im in a twilight zone! How long have you lived on So 22nd? I literally grew up on that street Im racking my brain trying to remember the address but the easy way to describe it was the single story house right next to the sidewalk that cuts through the neighborhood. I took that sidewalk to school every day it cut right through to thayer elemantary. I moved back with my dad here in ohio in 95 my mom moved out of that house in 97. Shes still rightt around the corner on Rainbow Ave.
Heck George you may even know my sister or my mom my mom works at UW as well Sue Woirhaye and my sister is Sara she went to UW as a student a few years back. My step father was the manager out at Western Mobile for over 20 years he made the move over to Mountain Cement roughly 6 or 7 years ago. It truly is a small world! I could have been your neighbor all these years and never knew it!
By the way, my name is JR Mason.

On a side note, let us know how your fuel leak turns out! Good luck!

 

[JR]

Wow I feel like Im in a twilight zone! How long have you lived on So 22nd? I literally grew up on that street Im racking my brain trying to remember the address but the easy way to describe it was the single story house right next to the sidewalk that cuts through the neighborhood. I took that sidewalk to school every day it cut right through to thayer elemantary. I moved back with my dad here in ohio in 95 my mom moved out of that house in 97. Shes still rightt around the corner on Rainbow Ave.

Heck George you may even know my sister or my mom my mom works at UW as well Sue Woirhaye and my sister is Sara she went to UW as a student a few years back. My step father was the manager out at Western Mobile for over 20 years he made the move over to Mountain Cement roughly 6 or 7 years ago. It truly is a small world! I could have been your neighbor all these years and never knew it!

By the way, my name is JR Mason.



On a side note, let us know how your fuel leak turns out! Good luck!

 

[Houser]

My 01 was having hard starting issues last year. My diesel shop guy said I should try disconnecting lift pump wire and see if it would start with no lift pump pressure. He said if it starts with no lift pump pressure its the VP causing the trouble. I tried it , the truck started. I changed the VP and now it always starts fine.

MIKE

Plamer, Ak.

 

[gtwitch]

As a quick post mortum! I have done nothing to solve the problem except to look around and I read Blue chip trouble shooting guide, which is the best and most insightfull, Thanks Chip!! The fuel pressure at the outlet of the stock filter started to come up on the 5/7 second initial purge while the plenum heater cycles, it was not comming up before, and now is comming up to 10 to 12 psi and slowly bleeds off to about 4 psi by the end of the 22 second heater cycle and the engine starts before 3 or 4 revs of the crank. After the comments and suggestions above and all or the reading, I think there was air in the VP44 froom somewhere and it finally was displaced and the problem is no more! Thanks to all who chimed in here, I really think TDR is GREAT!!!



gtwitch in Wyoming

 

[magaliasram]

I am having long crank times when ambient temps are above 80. I installed a rocker switch in the ground side of the lift pump and when I kill the lift pump the truck starts fine. I know this is a problem with the VP44 but I would love to just fix that part of the pump and keep using it. The VP44 runs flawlessly with no codes set other than the long crank times.

 

[JR]

Glad to hear you got it resolved one way or the other, George. Elk season should be in swing, cant be missin out on that because of a broken down rig!

 

[JR]

I am having long crank times when ambient temps are above 80. I installed a rocker switch in the ground side of the lift pump and when I kill the lift pump the truck starts fine. I know this is a problem with the VP44 but I would love to just fix that part of the pump and keep using it. The VP44 runs flawlessly with no codes set other than the long crank times.

Unfortunately theres not a whole lot you can do besides using your switch. Like you stated its a known issue with the vp and theres really no way around it Ive never seen where there are rebuild kits available you would have to know someone certified in rebuilding bosch pumps and at that point would probably be more cost effective to pick up a reman pump.