Strange Tire Wear

[MrWinkey]

My 93 W250 seems to be wearing the tires funny. The back 2 tires are fine but the front 2 seem to wear the outside edge of the tire more.



Does this mean I need new kingpins or something? Tried searching and alot of the threads talked about how you can check the kingpins and mine seem to be OK.



Would this be normal wear and I've just not rotated the tires enough?

 

[DieselMinded]

sounds like you need to get er' lined up ... no biggie go to an alinement shop



its about $40 around here for the alinement and rotate and balance and you should be fine.



Good luck

DM

 

[cerberusiam]

Sounds like the camber is out of adjustment on the spindles. If my memory serves me correctly the top kingpin has an adjustable cone that allows setting the camber on each side. An alignment check would be you best bet to see if everything is in spec.

 

[Philip]

The upper king pin is not adjustable. It is just a plastic cone over a tapered pin. I would reccommend replacing these plastic bushings and the springs that is on top of them. If memory serves me right. The plastic bushing is around $5. each from the dealer and the springs are around $15 each. My old springs were about 3/8" shorter than the new ones a couple of years ago when I rebuild the outer ends on my front axle.



Then take it to a shop and have the alinement checked.



Here are a couple of links with good reading in them.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...p?s=&threadid=72364&highlight=king+pin+randys



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78476&highlight=ball+joints

 

[cerberusiam]

The upper king pin is not adjustable

Thats not true. There are upper kingpin kits that allow 1 and 1. 5 degree adjustments with either the cone or offset race. Just checked on that for the same problem.



There should be springs inside the the upper kinpin that keep things centered and they get weak and can allow movement. Another way is to replace the springs with washers to tighten things up.



Excessive toe out can cause inside tire wear also. Been there and ruined a set of tires.



If you run offset wheels and/or wider tires this may cause wear patterns that are not normal. Any tire/wheel combo different than OEM has the possibility of causing camber problems.



Best bet is to have alignment specs checked then go from there.

 

[MrWinkey]

Thanks... I guess I'll have the alignment checked at the shop.



Looking to put new tires on it and I would like to know if this will cause the newer ones to wear strange also. Not a big problem but after 30k miles the tires did wear strange.



So I can buy a kit to adjust the camber? How hard is it to put in the new kingpins?



Thanks!

 

[Philip]

You have any links on the cones you found cerber. I wonder how they are stoping a cone from turning when it is in a smooth bore?

 

[cerberusiam]

Philip, the way I found out about them offset kits was trying to fix a tire killing Dana 44 and digging around in the books on a Dana 60 to see if that would be adjustable because the tires and wheels I was running was causing camber problems. Got rid of the problem vehicle and never did the upgrade. Kid called me the other day and said upper kingpins are shot and what does he need cuz tires are wearing. This triggered repressed memory of bad experience. I had talked to Les Schwab about ordering the parts so they should be available at other shops. Thought I had a link to some 4x4 site showing the kits but can't find it now. Go figure!





The cones are tapered so once they are set and tightened they should not turn, however, that doesn't always hold true if there is wear. I remember stories of staking the bore, loctite, etc to keep them from turning when I suspect a new knuckle should have been the solution.



Redneck engineering, what can I say.



According to the guys at the shop they should fit tight enough not to turn and if they do the knuckle is out of spec. Maybe they are knurled to hold once driven in? If the truck shows up for Christmas I may learn a lot more than I really wanted to know.

 

[Philip]

I may learn a lot more than I really wanted to know

ROFLMAO Been there done that. :-laf



If you find any info somewhere let me know. I hadn't ever heard of them before.

 

[TKingsbury]

I know they make offset stuff for closed knuckles, but I haven't seen stuff for the open knuckle axles. Our upper plastic or nylon sleeves have a key on them that indexes with a notch in the bore, that keeps them from turning. These open knuckle kingpin fronts are easy to rebuild. You need to remove all of the outer stuff ie: wheel, brakes, spindle, axle shaft and disco the tie-rod. Once you are there, it's as simple as removing the 4 bolts on top and bottom. The lower has a tapered bearing with a race in the "C" and the kingpin is what was held in by the lower 4 bolts. If the bearing is good, clean and pack it and reassemble. If you are replaceing it all, pack the bearing and replace the race and reverse the disassembly steps. You can buy a kit at most off-road shops that have all of the service parts included. I would also not pay to have someone set the toe on my truck, it is easily accomplished. Lets face it, that is pretty much all you get from an alignment on a 4x4 at a shop. You can check the caster yourself with an angle finder from Sears and reset with shims if necessary. This is all very easy to do if you have any mechanical ability whatsoever.

Travis. .

 

[MMiller]

If memory serves me correctly, there is nothing to keep the tapered bushing from turning. It would be nice to know if there is an adjustment to a 60F. Mine starts cupping the tires on the inside. They have not been rotated in about 6,000 miles. I do run wide mud tires and aftermarket rims. Plus the rears seem to wear out quicker anyways. Anybody figure out how to stop that? :-laf I just rotate them often and call it good.



Michael

 

[GBechtold]

Everybody I know that has a 4 wheel drive 1st gen has a problem with the front tires wearing funny . The 90 I had and my 91 has the same problem even with replacing the cones, springs and allignments they still wear the tires funny it's one of the things you have to deal with unless you rotate your tires every couple thousand miles. It's one of the things you gotta love about our trucks between that and our POS transmissions. :-laf

 

[TKingsbury]

Be thankful we aren't silly enough to own Fords with twin traction beam fronts. :-laf Just as an aside, my front tires wear pretty evenly inside and out. Just rotated mine with about 8k on em and while they are noticeably worn more onthe edges it is even. So I got that goin for me.

Travis. .

 

[GBechtold]

Yeah if you rotate your tires on a regular basis they will wear and last alot longer. Which is what I found that you have to do to get the most out of a set of tires.

 

[EZGZ]

I will join the chior and sing that 30k miles don't sound to bad.



I have a posi rear and when empty you can hear the rear skid on a corner if everything is just right. This seems to true up my fronts when I move them to the back.



I also run Michelin LTX which are nice radial all season tires and I think they are very forgiving because with all the siping they flex easy.



My fronts wear funny to. I think it is a waste of time and a rip off to have these front end shops alighn your front end unless you are clueless. I use a

adjustable paint pole on the inside of my rims at 4 o'clock and 8 O'clock to check my tow in. If I need to adjust I always try and do the same amount on both sides. I alway's check again after driving.



A friend of mine had these LTX tires on his little 1/2 ton two wheel drive with 70k miles on them when they hit the wear bars. He got new ones and I got the old ones. Ran them 20k miles further on my truck before getting a new set for myself.

 

[MrWinkey]

Hmmmm sounds like I'm not that far off everybody else.



My other Green 92 has had more miles put on it and the tires never wore funny. I should probably tear down and check the 93's kingpins and repack the bearings as it's about 200k and it needs it.



I just didnt want to wear out a set of brand new tires.



The steering does have a little play in it. I was going to replace it with a Boregson unit or rebuild the stock dodge unit. Do you guys think that would help?



Thanks a ton for all the replys. I have pretty good mechanical skills but I'm always nervous about some of this stuff.

 

[cerberusiam]

Too much toe in/out will cause accelerated tire wear. BTDT. I would say for the $30 I get charged to check the ball joints/king pins, set the toe, center the steering the piece of mind is worth the cost. If y'all feel comfortable setting the toe thats great. Used to think that way myself. Got tired of buying tires too soon.

 

[dpuckett]

Finding a good shop- for ANYTHING- is getting tougher and tougher. I bought a 93 D350 from All Rental in ColoSpgs, and the manager told me it needed a new front end- it wore tires funny, and after half a dozen alignments, it still wasnt right. I took it ($3000, 150K, I couldnt pass it up), replaced the ball joints, and got it aligned. 15K later when I sold it (thank you Stoddard County, MO ), the tires were still even and looked like new. Maybe we should start a thread for shops (esp front end/ suspension and brakes) that have given good service and done good work, even if it did cost a little more than the shops you have to fix it after you get it back.



As an aside, what in the heck are you guys doing to wear your tires out after only 30-40K? Even with the el-cheapo $75 tires, I get 45-50K, running on gravel, towing, putting ricers in their places, etc. With my front end way out on the 91, I still have 30% left (25K) on a set of tires I got from the local yokle el cheapo shop. Think it was $180- mounted, balanced- for 2.



Daniel

 

[MMiller]

Daniel

I run BFG mt's, I don't get too much more then 40,000 out of them, and don't expect too either. They get worn down, then they make a real handfull to drive on the rain. Also I tow heavy, with load range "d" tires so I keep good tires with not much age on them. I don't want a blow out at 70 mph loaded at 28,000#. The mud tread doesn't last long anyways, specially with my heavy foot, and the ability to put rubber down with the trailer loaded.



Michael

 

[GBechtold]

Has anybody used any BF Goodrich all terrain T/A tires and if so how many miles are you getting out of them I had them on my Dakota and loved them I was just wondering how they worked on a heavier application for example pulling a trailer and weighing in at 26,000 or more