Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Stupid 3GSK questions

[Willys]

Ok, so the only stupid question being the one that doesn't get asked ... here we go:

I helped my brother install a 3GSK and #11 plate this weekend on his truck, and neither of us having done this, and the instructions being a little vague, are you supposed to reuse the smallest set of inner springs? I've done some reading and it looks like you replace them in a 4GSK and with the 3GSK you leave them out? Well, we installed them, and tightened the retainer back as close to stock setting as possible(. 060, only one shim on each side originally, and yes we left those out. ) The throttle is a lot more sensitive now, with some 'bucking' on the lower end? The pedal is so touchy you can almost breathe on it and it will jump to around 2k rpm. :-laf

The truck is definitely more fun to drive and puffs a little smoke before boost builds, but the touchiness is annoying. Would removing the inner spring help? Should he get a heavier throttle return spring? I know a new clutch is now on the list... he can slip it while on the throttle real hard, but its ok on most driving.

Edit: I forgot to add that this is a '96, 5 speed, 3. 54, BHAF, 3" straight pipe, dual exhaust, but is otherwise stock.

 

[GOlsen]

I left the inner set out on mine (advice from another TDR member ) And it works great.

 

[SMEdevoted]

I still have the inner springs in mine, and they are tightened down 1 click from stock position (~. 070 of the stud sticking out) and I really like them.

 

[Eric_B]

Ok so what change occurs if you do or don't remove the inner springs? RPM range any different? Less or more touchy throttle? Trying to understand differences. Not trying to hijack thread just learning a little more.

 

[Ruckuz]

Eric,

I was told over the phone by Harry at PDR...

There are 4! Springs in the total. The largest spring controls the idle, leave it in there along with any shims the same size. Remove the three other springs, and replace them with the 2 from the kit, along with the new seat. I just installed my kit last week, and i can't seem to get it to go over 2250 from a dead stop, hammer down, even adjusting the governor arm. Where does his truck rev to when you stomp on it???

 

[Ruckuz]

By the way, i was kinda disapointed with the instructions as well.

But the instructions for adjusting the governor arm were even worse. I think they need to be re-written. Did you have to adjust the arm? Also, how far forward is the plate??



Hehe, sorry about all the questions, but i want mine to go higher.

 

[Eric_B]

I am actually in the process of installing mine right now. Just trying to get some insight from those that have installed theirs.

 

[Ruckuz]

yeah i could probably use some insight myself hehe

 

[Willys]

Ok so what change occurs if you do or don't remove the inner springs? RPM range any different? Less or more touchy throttle? Trying to understand differences. Not trying to hijack thread just learning a little more.

Definitely not hijacking the thread! That's a question we'd like to know as well, though we may have to take them out sometime in the next few days to know firsthand. The throttle is VERY touchy. I am guessing that is because the general tightness of the springs(I've heard Piers says to only tighten them two clicks?), and the extra inner spring in there. We had to make a tool to turn the retainer nut back to the same position and general depth that the instructions said to do. They were so tight it was impossible to do with a screwdriver, and by going in from the top of the pump it was impossible to get snap ring pliers or needle nose pliers onto it. We didn't try to do it from the side since there just seems to be so much junk in the way there. I've heard that's the best way since your likelyhood of dropping a shim in the pump is lower.



I think the first time we tested it, the #11 plate was in the stock position(or close to it:-laf ), and rpms were kind of limited and power was far less than stock. It almost felt like my anemic '96 :-laf . We pulled the cover back off and slid the plate as far forward as we could get without adjusting the governor lever- this was 4am Sunday and we didn't feel like tinkering much more. Bolted it back together and its much stronger than stock. Ruckuz, you might want to slide the plate. If you've already done that, maybe adjust the star wheel forward? I figure that could be in the way... or hung up? Dunno, I'm kind of a newby to actually doing this stuff.



I popped it to about 3100 rpm on a shift on accident. We're trying to keep it under 3k to be on the safe side. It starts defueling around there it feels like anyway. The plate may be 1/16-1/8" forward. I can't remember how far he slid it the last time. He's definitely not complaining about the power level- but the touchiness is annoying. If you start revving it to 1200, it will pretty much climb to 1800-2000 on its own. We haven't adjusted timing yet- that is on the list along with a clutch.



Oh, about the 11 plate. The lower end of it looks like it is more limiting than the stock plate, when compared side by side. I think it almost has to be slid forward slightly to get stock low end power... This isn't a TST part so far as I know- it came from CityDiesel.net.

 

[Eric_B]

Ok well there are 2 large diamater shims behind the large original spring. Do I reuse any of them or just put the large spring back in w/o them and put in the springs & seats from kit ? Please Help as I am in the middle of this now. TIA

 

[Ruckuz]

Like i said ^^^^^

Harry from PDR told me :



4 Springs Stock in total

Largest spring stays in with any shims/ washers that came with it

Other 3 stock springs come out

2 new springs from the kit go in

 

[Ruckuz]

Largest spring stays in with any shims/ washers that came with it







Meaning any shims/washers the same size. I think i had two each

 

[Eric_B]

Well I took ALL of the shims out and ther new springs in and adjusted. Have not put it back together yet because I will be tackling KDP tomorrow. Will someone please let me know if I can leave these shims out.

 

[Ruckuz]

I'm not sure... My complete GUESS would be it should be ok??, as the ones that were under my spring were tiny, and even when it all went back together my idle was off a little bit anyways...

Somebody who knows tell me if i'm on the right track, or completely wrong.



Corey

 

[GOlsen]

From what I understand, if you do it right, your idle shouldn't be off at all. That's easy to adjust. Just a 10mm nut for a throttle stop. Other than that, if you do it, and it suits your taste, than you're good to go. I think if you're going to do it the "right way" (if there is one), you should leave the shim for the larger spring in there, take all the other shims and springs out, put the two in from the kit. That's the way it has been engineered, so I imagine that's the way it will work best. (Although, I'm not saying that it won't work properly otherwise).

 

[JPittinger]

More spring pressure (or more springs) = more rpms the gov needs to compress them. Leaving the inner ones in and tightening them with a 'tool' is what made it so touchy. If you're worried about going over 3k, take them out and you'll be much happier.

 

[Eric_B]

Ok so leaving ALL of the shims out will only affect rpm range (max rpm)? I'm not worried about reving to 3000-3400 rpm, just want it to fuel all the way to 3000 rpm or better.

 

[SMEdevoted]

Someone please correct me if i am wrong, but my understanding of the governor springs is that they simply control the rack movement. The higher the spring pressure (be it by more springs, more compression of the springs, etc. ), the more RPM you are going to have at any point in the throttle. In other words, more spring pressure = more responsive throttle AND higher maximum RPM (to get one, you have to take the other). You just have to find a balance between the two that you are satisfied with...



-Carson

 

[Willys]

Well last night we tried to remove the small springs to see if there is any difference. We had a problem on the second set- details are in the 911 thread right now since the truck is not driveable.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=36