Suburban 24v Cummins swap

[dcamilleri]

I am in the process of installing a 2001 24v into a 1985 suburban. The swap will have the following, nvg 4500 transmission hooked to a np205 transfer case,dana 60 front,detroit locker,gm 14 bolt rear,detroit locker,4. 10's.

I just finished building the motor mounts and the engine is sitting in the frame. The two front crossmembers have been removed(I will make new ones soon). The transmission is next to go in. I am not sure which way to go for the slave cylinder. I have a stock 92 gm slave and master but I am short an o-ring and the dealer says they are not available seperately. Should I just use the Dodge pieces? Does anyone have any other ideas?

My next chore is the wiring does anyone have any short cuts. I have the schematics and am about to start. I also have not figured the best intercooler to use. Would love to hear any feed back.

 

[MA-1]

Just finished up the clutch on an '87 Suburban that I'm working on with a friend. We used the stock Dodge master and slave assy, complete with tubing and reservoir. We just lengthened the actuator rod, and modified the firewall mount a bit. As far a wiring, all I can say is good luck. I consider myself fairly adept in the areas of modern automobile electrical systems, but frankly, the more I researched, the more I'm glad I did a P-Pump conversion instead. To make the Cummins/Dodge electronics work, you basically need an entire 2001 Ram, complete with Wiring harness, ECM, PCM, instrument panel, etc. If there is one loose end on that CAN bus, the thing won't run right. With the P-Pump, if the shutoff solenoid is pulled up, there is fuel at the pump, and the engine will spin, it will run. No guessing games or headaches. I'm sure that the money spent on the P-Pump conversion will more than make up for the potential nightmare of a VP-44 install. Now the engine has the best of both worlds, and the power potential is awesome!

 

[EBramwell]

How about wiring a 98 12V Cummins? How bad is it?

 

[sbentz]

24V in Chevy 1985 Suburban - Easy!

Seriously, the old Suburban I ran for 300,000 with a CPL 804 12 valve was in need of more "civilized" features, like cold start and such. I took a 2001 Dodge 24V HO and swapped it last xmas, over the holidays. The wiring? Cinch. Take the Dodge harness, trace the wires down, and hook them up as needed. I build a relay box for the heater grids using 2 ford solenoids, and used as much stock stuff as I could. The only thing I never put back on was the A/C compressor, as it hit the lower right rail. I used to have the old rotary up onthe top drivers side, and just have not made the bracket. It is a little tight, as the CAC piping is there now.



When you build the mounts, make the engine low and as far back as you can. We used to build brackets and you couldnot use a belt drive fan. Not good. I used to have the 350 radiator in this, and it worked, but eventually added the 6. 2 larger one.



The CAC is a hand built unit, I originally used for test, but it works fine.



It is the same as the one i use on the Cummins dragster . Check it out on my web on the engine photo page. I will throw a few photos of the conversion work up on the web today.

(www.cumminsracing.com)



I am considering selling the old beast, as have too many cars. It has a 14 bolt, TH400, D44 front, and a 4" lift. , new tires, and a lot more. It runs.

 

[Hutchew]

Piece of cake...........

Originally posted by EBramwell

How about wiring a 98 12V Cummins? How bad is it?

Nothing special to make it happen.....

PM me if you want more detail.

 

[24VChev]

24V Wiring

I wired in my 98. 5 24V and just used the Cummins ECM. All I had to hook up was six wires to get it to run. The Engine ran great and Dyno'd about 200 hp stock. Here is a good link for wiring. Just print it out and tape the pages together for a large schematic.



http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/ECM/index.html

 

[mgoncalves]

Hey guys, Dave is my parents neighbor!! After years of hearing how bad the Cummins and my old PSD were, the biggest Chevy diesel lover in the world is converting to a Cummins:--) .





What's next Dave, time to swap out that Chevy rearend for a dana 80?



If you come visit with us again, PM me with the progress of the swap. It looked like you had the hard part over with when I saw it.





Matt

 

[Uncle Joe]

I been following all the cummins to subs posts and I have a question to you guys:whouldnt it be easier to buy a rolled dodge,take the body off and graft the suburban body(like the wifes 94)on the dodge frame?... at least all the chassis engineering been done for you... ... ..... any comments??,all and any criticism is appreciated.

 

[24VChev]

The only problem I could see would be that the Suburban floor is much lower at the back than the Dodge truck Chassis. I would still buy a wrecked Dodge and use the truck as a donor vehicle.

 

[bvanetten]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe

I been following all the cummins to subs posts and I have a question to you guys:whouldnt it be easier to buy a rolled dodge,take the body off and graft the suburban body(like the wifes 94)on the dodge frame?... at least all the chassis engineering been done for you... ... ..... any comments??,all and any criticism is appreciated.

Well, at least on the older pre 73 burbs, swapping bodies is a much better way to go. That's what I did. You have to modify the frame but if you know what your doing it's not thata big of a deal. With mine 4" had to be removed from the wheelbase and to allow the body to suck down onto the frame a 4' section needed to be flipped in place. The dodge frame makes the old chevy one look like a tinkerbell frame.



If I had to do it all over again I would swap bodies again. I've got pics in the readers rigs section.



Bruce

 

[dcamilleri]

IT RUN'S!!!!!!

I fired up the engine last night, wiring was a success! Everything works except the charging circuit and thanks to Malcom at Pro-Mac diesel that should be working tonight. It really wasn't that hard to wire. Any one attemping the same should contact me while it is still fresh in my head(and written down). It should be drivable by this weekend assuming my exhaust parts and electric fans show up on ups. So far this is what I have: 2001 24v with 8000 miles, 97 chevy nvg 4500 with dodge input shaft, chevy np 205 transfer case(married), dodge slave cylinder, gm master, centerforce dual friction clutch, custom modified flywheel (by auto-world, Great Falls,MT) has sealed ball bearing pilot, power puck, dodge cummins radiator and intercooler, flexalite twin puller electric fans, stock sodge alternator with external mopar regulator, custom motor mounts, by me, custom frame modifications by me, a/c compressor in stock dodge location, ready to have fun!

 

[jlast]

Good to hear its going.



well when you get a chance post some pics.



Jlast

 

[dcamilleri]

Finally got this girl running the way she should! Had to reflash the ecm to a manual program. If you start with an automatic engine it is a MUST to reflash the ecm to a manual program. Without the ecm reflash the ecm will go into engine protection mode and won't rev past about 1900 rpms. Seems the automatic ecm programing needs to talk to the pcm and the manual doesn't. Don't worry about having a vss signal either, it would just limit how fast you could drive! After the ecm reflash I left about 50 feet of rubber off of my 35-12. 5-16. 5 tires in my initial launch at Cummins,Rocky Mtn in Billings, MT. YE HA 2001 24v with Diablo power puck

 

[willyslover]

IMHO. . you will find that the clutch you picked will not last long with your torque output. . and if you power it up further... say byby to it... but hope for you it will last thru getting the bugs worked out

 

[w-cummins]

Re: IT RUN'S!!!!!!

Originally posted by dcamilleri

I fired up the engine last night, wiring was a success! Everything works except the charging circuit and thanks to Malcom at Pro-Mac diesel that should be working tonight. It really wasn't that hard to wire. Any one attemping the same should contact me while it is still fresh in my head(and written down). It should be drivable by this weekend assuming my exhaust parts and electric fans show up on ups. So far this is what I have: 2001 24v with 8000 miles, 97 chevy nvg 4500 with dodge input shaft, chevy np 205 transfer case(married), dodge slave cylinder, gm master, centerforce dual friction clutch, custom modified flywheel (by auto-world, Great Falls,MT) has sealed ball bearing pilot, power puck, dodge cummins radiator and intercooler, flexalite twin puller electric fans, stock sodge alternator with external mopar regulator, custom motor mounts, by me, custom frame modifications by me, a/c compressor in stock dodge location, ready to have fun!

What did you use for the Voltage regulator? Do you have the ECM running the intake heaters? do you have any pictures of your crossmembers I would like to compare them to mine! Also how did you hook the GM master to the Dodge slave?



William... .

 

[dcamilleri]

William,

I used a voltage regulator from 70's era mopar, simple two wire hookup. I removed all front factory crossmembers from frame, welded and bolted a 1/4 x6 crossmenber at the very front of frame and tied in to welded on heavy duty winch bumper. Steering box is reinforced with a frame plate kit. I used the chevy master cylinder and plastic tube from a 92 chevy. I coupled it to the dodge slave cylinder by filing and fitting the slave cylinder end to the hole in the dodge slave. The dodge slave has a smaller hole than the chevy but they both use the same o-ring to seal. Another solution is to remove the ends from the plastic tubing and crimp on some #3 hydraulic hose. I have logged about 2500 miles on my conversion so far with only minor problems. I has quit running on three separate occassions and then restarted within one minute(I think I have a bad fuel injection pump relay, courtesy of napa auto parts), I have since also installed a 4 inch Jardine exhaust, custom built in Dubois,Wy two weeks ago at Pinnacle exhaust. Average fuel mileage for the first 2500 miles has been 15 mpg. This includes long warm ups in Feb and some towing. I could not use the twin electric fans that I bought because of lack of clearance, instead I had a hub machined that would adapt a stainless steel flex fan to the fan hub(not enough room to run the stock fan clutch). Next step is a boost fooler and injectors, maybe ddII's if I can scrape up the money. Oo.

 

[w-cummins]

Mine is going to fit just fine with the stock fan. I changed the firewall some what and the motor sets back and almost touches the chevy diesel sound shield. I made a "box" and welded it into the firewall to clear the return line on the back of the head and that gave me more clearance.

 

[dcamilleri]

Suburban 24v update

With about 3000 miles on the clock since the swap I think I have most of the bugs worked out. The engine has stalled 4 times in the last 3000 miles and each time it would restart after waiting about 1 minute on the side of the road. I think the problem is a bad injector pump relay, I have since switched it with my fuel heater relay and it has not stalled again. I got my first powerstroke confirmed kill several weeks ago, when I blew past a Banks power packed stroke(evident by big labels on side of truck)only to be halted by a two ton truck hauling fire wood and driving 10 mph up a hill, I passed him and the ****** stroke passed him and tried real hard to keep up(even my daughter noticed all the black smoke he was making while he was getting further and further behind until he gave up(my speedo was buried) Now I have just added 275 injectors and a boost fooler and elbow. I think I have enough for now. I made my first towing trip up into the Big Horn Mountains of Wyoming over Memorial day Weekend. Behind the Burb was a 26. 5 Jayco camp trailer and behind the trailer my custom CJ7. I pulled all of the hard hills in 4th gear, although the engine temp came up quite a bit while pulling a 9 mile long 7% grade and required shifting to 3rd to let her cool. I was not able to use electric fans as I originally planned because the dual flexalite setup that I bought wouldn't fit. So I had a hub machined and attached a 19" stainless flex fan. I would like to know the feasability of using a cummins electric clutch fan to draw more air, since I don't think the electric clutch sticks out in front of the fan as much as the stock fan clutch. My overall fuel mileage has been 15 mpg with my best tank of 23mpg, but I was limited to 62 mph before I had my ecm reflashed. I am a true convert now and this swap was well worth the time and money.

 

[24VChev]

excellent!

Glad to here that all is well. What intercooler did you use? Kind of fun smok'n other trucks with those GM's. Other drivers think that you got a smoky old gm diesel until they here the sweet sound of the Cummins rattling away Good for lots of fun





Malcolm

 

[dcamilleri]

Malcom,

I used a 96 dodge intercooler, cut off the inlets and swapped them side to side and rewelded(this step makes it clear the structural members of the radiator support. I also used a dodge radiator. I hooked up a voltage regulator like you recomended but I get a little voltage surge, about . 5 volts and I am not sure what to do about it. It also makes the engine run a little rough at idle and when driving with the head lights on they seem to pulse. This is the second voltage regulator I have tried since the first one was a bit on the high side of voltage and also fluctuated. Any thoughts?

Dave