Sunday afternoon pot stirring.

[ACoyle]

1) It's been over a year since the American homeland was attacked. We do not even know if the person or persons responsible are alive or dead or where they are. Our people are still dead.



2) We are starting to look a lot like we want to open another front, before we finish the first one.



3) we have our lowest interest rates since the older of us were children, but, the economy is not booming.



4) Today we are told that they will be back in new York and Washington. We seem to be afraid.



Does anyone have any idea where this is all going? Or, what to do about it?



Just wondering. happy Sunday!!!!

 

[DEZLPWR]

It's the Democrats fault and the fallout from the Clinton legacy... . Oo. Oo.

 

[ACoyle]

Afixing blame does not fix any of it. Not trying to agrevate you or anyone else just worried about fixing it.

 

[Champane Flight]

Thats funny!

Thats some funny stuff... ..... We could just continue to blame everything on Clinton, but hasn't Bush been in charge for the last two years?

 

[klenger]

Our nation and the whole world is in a very fragile condition right now. I'm not sure what would happen if we had a widespread tragady like a desease (terrorism or natural), etc. Sometime I think that we are not as resiliant as we claim we are.

 

[Cummins4Life]

#ad

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

HMMmmm ~



"Legacy" (leg-a-see) - as in, that which lives on or possibly expands, often well beyond or after the creator or originator is outta the picture - may be good, or bad - sometimes both, depending on individual perspectives and personal environment...



YUP, UNH-HUHhhh, I agree...

 

[BFC]

The Prez is not the one NOT spending money, the American people are.



The Prez is not the one asking for a casualty less war, the American people are.



The Prez is not the one whinning about the "rights" of terrorist in US costody, the American people are.



The Prez is not the one asking our long the war with Iraq is going to last, the American pepople are.



The Prez is not the one not commercially flying, the American people are.



Point is, there is only so much the Prez can do, we have to do our part. We have become a nation that refuses to take responsability for our action. It always has to be somebody elses fault, we're willing to sacrife a lot of things, as long as it doesnt impact our lifestyle, freedoms or bank account Think it's time we stopped playing the blame game and decide what what we're going to do about it.



Glenn

 

[nickleinonen]

us canadians are not all backwards...

era su fo emos tsuj

 

[Champane Flight]

Good start...

Yeap, Bush has got a good start on his own "legacy".

 

[BillH]

Very well put BFC.

 

[TPCDrafting]

Bob the Bobcat once so eloquently said:

Blaming the President for the way things are today is like blaming Ronald McDonald when you get a bad cheeseburger, neither of them run the company.

 

[ACoyle]

I have been meaning to add to this for a day or so. My intent is not to assign blame for any of this. Who is at fault is really unimportant. If a war or a depression happens we will all be in dire straights, no matter who started it.



A war in the middle east will be brought to the American homeland so quickly you cannot beleive it. You have to have been in New York on 9/11 to understand this. The trip home that day involved an hour's train ride soaking wet, as we were all hosed down from a fire hose as we got off the ferry. Much more than you can believe happened that day. And, I was only in midtown.



The ecnomy is no joke either.



Think about it, blame is not important. How we can find a safe direction out is.



AC

 

[Champane Flight]

Bliss

Before 9/11 we lived in a world of bliss. We went along happy go lucky with the idea terror only lived in countrys such as Israel, and third world nations. We were sadly reminded that no one, even us is imune from terror. Even now, we some of us feel separated from the terror that happened on 9/11. It comes down to "It won't happen to us, just the people that live in the city. " Well, even if it does just happen in the big citys of America, it affects us all. I don't know if everyone remembers how strange and isolated it felt looking to the skys and not seeing any airplanes. Or the feeling of dread and unreal seeing the towers come down.



Now when we as Americans are asked to go to war, we all give a resounding "Yes". Yet no one knows who we are going to fight. We are asked to give up freedoms for our safety, and we all say "Sure". But no one knows what level of freedom will be taken. We can destroy all these "Axis of evil" countrys our pres talks about, and all it will do is scatter the enemy and build more hate. It is like turning the light on a bunch of cockroaches and watching them scatter. Sometimes it is better to know where they are at and surround them with poison.





We are in a war against terror. You cannot wage a conventional war on terror. It has to be a, "Sit in the corner and wait for them to come to you". You have to bring the hearts and the minds of their allies to your way of thinking. You have to stop the hate before it begins, in the children of tomorrow. You do not destroy hate like this with bombs and bullets. When you have mothers giving their children up to be suicide bombers, there is something seriously wrong folks.

 

[NETim]

I guess I'm still having trouble coming to grips with this supposed "wisdom" of waiting for good ol' Saddam to build up his nuke inventory. All indications are that's exactly his intent.



Do we want to play nuclear chicken with this guy?



The only thing these people, i. e. , Al Queda and the rest, seem to understand is force. Ugly, brute force.



They're going to hit us whether we retaliate or not until they get their way or can no longer attack our interests. It seems to me anyway, that our only course of action is to reduce their ability to strike at us and eventually make them understand that the price is too high.



It would be nice to be able to negotiate with these people, but I don't believe that they are reasonable, rational individuals. In their hearts and minds they're doing God's work. I don't know if anything we can say will dissuade them.



We have no choice but level 'em until the fight is out of them.



No we won't win them over to our way of thinking on this course of action, but maybe the more sane individuals in the affected regions of the world will get tired of the war and and clean up for us.



It's going to be up to the Muslim world to actually put a stop to this terrorist nonsense. They've got to take their religion back and pull it back on center.



As far as our individual freedoms, well, as has been said so many times by so many, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. " I don't like some of what has/is being proposed in this fight against terrorism. It appears that the Federal government is about to acquire the authority to gather massive amounts of data on individual citizens via credit card transactions, magazine subscriptions, etc. I am not at all comfortable with that. Too much potential for abuse.



I'm not sure if this power was granted to the Feds in the recently passed "Homeland Defense" bill or not. It's been in and out of the legislation a number of times.





Tim

 

[sdalton]

CF, If you are against a conventional war against the terrorist funding governments, then how do you propose to go about it?? You just cant stick your head in the sand until the perfect means of dealing with them pops up. You have to start somewhere. If you wait too long the terrorist see themselves as the victors and just grow stronger with every cowardly attack, and the cowardly response of those attacked, who just sit around, hold hands and sing John Lennon songs.



As far as the US people not knowing who we are going to fight, well just turn on FOXNEWS and you will be told. It up to our leaders to determine who the enemy is, then tell us, and we will then put the peices together and make out ouwn minds up, as to whether it it just or not. It seems the majority of the AMERICANS have decided the Commander and Chief if right. That is good enough for me. I have seen enough BS from Arab leaders spouting the hatred and destruction of the U. S. to realize they ARE the enemy. If they danced around after the New York Bombings, then they are the enemy. If they preach that we deserved what we got because of our religions, economic policies, or wealth, then they are the enemies. If they preach that we should do nothing in responce to the constant attacks on the U. S. , then they are the enemy.

I feel that non-action and complacency is disgusting and cowardly way to behave. If these peace-nics had their property and children attacked, directly, you bet they would fight back. But since it isnt in their back yard, then it is of no concern to them, and they can then sit around criticizing the "evil warmongers".

 

[Jumbo Jet]

The USA has a serious problem by not being willing to call our enemies OUR ENEMIES.



I think God even said your either with us or against us. Choose.



USA was given three things to do to be removed as a target of Fundamental Islamic terrorism.



1) Leave the Arab Penisula



2) Abandon all support for Israel



3) Convert to the Islam religion.





Now all you whimpering, pacifist, Al Gore loving, weenies - CHOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



MAKE A CHOICE or move to France - or any other American hating country!



You don't deserve the protection and freedom that our sons and daughters who are in the military are providing and are willing to secure with their lives!

 

[Shovelhead]

Jumbo Jet,

You left out #4..... Eliminate those who threaten us.

 

[Champane Flight]

Here we go.

Here we go, resorting to name calling and ignorant ranting from the people that have never seen a war. Man, I get real tired being labeled as a traitor just because I don't support the people that hold office right now. You follow him, I choose not to believe everything my goverment says (and it wouldn't matter which party they were from, if this was what they were doing). After all the other mistakes this goverment has made in the past, the chances that they are on the right track now is nill to little.



The country that sprouted (as you say) the same terrorists that gave us 9/11 are our allies right now! What is wrong with this picture? The rest of the WORLD sees the light, why can't we? Are we condeming the goverments that we have allied with? No. Are they actively seeking terrorist for us? No. We are ignoring all their human rights violations, just so we can keep our bases there. Take the blinders off!!!



So what does our goverment want to do? They want to go into Iraq. There is NO hard evidence of Saddam having nukes, there is no evidence of him even having weapons of mass destruction. The inspectors are in country right now, even before any finding, Bush is still trying to muster a force to go into Iraq. All to fishy to me. Can you say " I will get the evil Saddam for you Daddy".



Do you think you understand the enemy? I think not. I don't even think you have a clue. Do you know we will have to destroy half of the world to kill what you call Islamic terror? Are you willing to take the amount of inocent lives that WILL be taken in this quest? Oh, never mind I forgot your from the "Take my children and start another war for the next 20 years!" crowd. I don't need anybodys kids to protect me and I have earned the right to speak out whenever I want. Eat that boys.



I am not a pacifist, I would be the first to voluteer if they would take me again. I am however against the USA begining a campaign of agression. It is not the way I want to be remembered in history. I am also for exploring all ways to peace before we go to war. I do hope no one here looses a child to this war, but when ( I say when, because if it will happen damn it"!) they do, you will see my point of veiw. All the flag waving in the world will not bring them back, or the people we lost on 9/11. I will not post on this thread again, so flame away.

 

[JTBMC]

CF your no traitor,

I do support the President and the calling for this action and

I certainly understand your feelings not wanting our youngsters or our Country involved in a War any War. I too am a Vietnam Vet. and once a month when I go into the VA Hospital in Biloxi, Mississippi for my check up and meds, I thank the good Lord, Jesus that I'm not in the condition that many of my brother vets are in. I often feel guilty that I am standing while my own brother Mike and many others are not and can not. At least I have all of my limbs and only a few scars and mended bones to content with.

However I will only except the America that I was able to grow up in for my children and grand children, and that is for every Americans children. If that means you and I volunteering to serve again well I know were both ready.

TJ